What Music Do You Associate With Keats?

Discussion on the works of John Keats.

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Re: What Music Do You Associate With Keats?

Postby Saturn » Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:34 pm

I agree with that. I think you're being far too harsh on the film Nonedo.

People here know I've been as cynical and sceptical about the film, about the casting, the story and so forth, but [and I haven't even seen it yet] but judging from the widespread critical appreciation it is, if nothing else a beautiful film, a great 'period' piece, which happens to be about Keats and Fanny. It doesn't purport to be Keats The Movie [everything you ever wanted to know about John Keats Part 1] or anything like it. It's an attempt to dramatise their relationship for a modern audience through Fanny's eyes, not a hagiographic love letter to Keats and his work.
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Re: What Music Do You Associate With Keats?

Postby Credo Buffa » Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:49 pm

Saturn wrote:People here know I've been as cynical and sceptical about the film, about the casting, the story and so forth, but [and I haven't even seen it yet] but judging from the widespread critical appreciation it is, if nothing else a beautiful film, a great 'period' piece, which happens to be about Keats and Fanny. It doesn't purport to be Keats The Movie [everything you ever wanted to know about John Keats Part 1] or anything like it. It's an attempt to dramatise their relationship for a modern audience through Fanny's eyes, not a hagiographic love letter to Keats and his work.

Excellent assessment, Saturn. As with any dramatization of existing material, be it a book adaptation, a biographical work, or historical event, it's generally best to look at it in isolation. Are there ways that most biopics could more accurately depict their subjects? Of course. But as a piece of art in and of itself, is it effective, well written, well acted, visually stimulating. . . ? If you can answer "Yes" to those kinds of questions, then it's worthwhile giving it the benefit of the doubt.

While not quite in the same arena, I'd think of Bright Star as a film along the lines of Amadeus. The latter is clearly NOT meant to be a biographically sound depiction of either Mozart or Salieri, but it is an incredible piece of filmmaking nonetheless. As huge a fan of Mozart and fierce defender of him as I am, I don't think anything less of it for making him look ridiculous. Do I worry that people see it and go out into the world thinking that was the way things really happened? Of course. But from a purely biographical standpoint, I'm much more excited by the idea that it was, and continues to be, a film that gets people thinking about Mozart and inspires them to learn more about his life and work.
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Re: What Music Do You Associate With Keats?

Postby Saturn » Fri Feb 12, 2010 9:36 pm

Excellent comparison Credo, and another truly great film, which is first and foremost superb entertainment, and never claims to be a biography of Mozart nor a condemnation of Salieri. It somehow manages to get to the essence of the character of Mozart, and showcases some of his greatest pieces, and inspired a whole new generation to appreciate his music.

And in the final analysis, the most important and lasting influence of Bright Star has been, and hopefully will continue to be is that it has sparked an interest in Keats' life and work, and as a Keats admirer I can't ask more than that.

Who knows there may be in future another Keats film which is more strictly accurate and is able to fully depict the complex man that Keats was, but I doubt it.

We should be thankful that Jane Campion was interested enough and determined enough to put a version of Keats on screen.
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Re: What Music Do You Associate With Keats?

Postby Nonedo » Sat Feb 13, 2010 6:29 pm

The film and casting could have been much much better, (at least with that, do you agree?). It was boring from start (Believe me, you can not bore me). By "ordinary girl meets a poet" I ment there is no streinght of film itself. And the cry in the end? Pathetic! Out of life of Keats they've made another Romantic comedy they make every year. Personaly I prefer Byron(2003) to Bright star, which does the justice to character and gives us "here it is" that "Oh that was so awful in that century" or disney's beauty and the beast or something like that. Don't praise makers for "At least they've gave us something".
It is not a dramatisation but an attempt, and a failed one. I cared for shelley in B than keats in Star. They try to imitate way too hard. In reality the cry of Fanny would tear my heart apart, but theater/film is not that simple! Like in horror you cant scare a man by just showing how someone screams (If he is not a greatest actor of milenia).
To take into the air my quiet breath;
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To cease upon the midnight with no pain,
While thou art pouring forth thy soul abroad
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Re: What Music Do You Associate With Keats?

Postby Raphael » Mon Feb 15, 2010 4:48 pm

The film and casting could have been much much better, (at least with that, do you agree?).


Sorry er no.



It was boring from start (Believe me, you can not bore me).


No again- it captivated me.

By "ordinary girl meets a poet" I ment there is no streinght of film itself. And the cry in the end? Pathetic!


Have a heart will you- she had lost the love of her life- and the real Fanny was said to have fell apart a few days after hearing of his death. Grief is not pathetic.

Out of life of Keats they've made another Romantic comedy they make every year.


It's obvious you don't like the film, and think you can make better so go on why don't you? :wink:
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who we are because of what you left,
what it is we are in what we make of you.

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Re: What Music Do You Associate With Keats?

Postby Credo Buffa » Mon Feb 15, 2010 7:14 pm

Nonedo wrote:Out of life of Keats they've made another Romantic comedy they make every year.

I'm sorry, but I don't see anything funny about this film, and I tend to think you might be the only one to find humor in something obviously--and obviously meant to be--tragic. Look across the spectrum of reviews and if you'll find nothing else that critics can agree on, it's that Abbie Cornish's performance was the heart and soul of this film, and I concur whole-heartedly. Personally, when I think of the end, I'll always think of a friend who saw the film with me--someone who knew nothing of Keats beforehand other than that I have such a history with his life and work--who was in tears because she was so affected by the scene.

In any case, I agree with Raphael that we're all well aware now that our disagreements about the film are well established and it's time to move on. After all, this is a thread about music; there are other places on the forum here to talk about Bright Star if we so choose. :)
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Re: What Music Do You Associate With Keats?

Postby Nonedo » Thu Feb 18, 2010 1:47 pm

Oh, you can’t say "like this piece, the author tried soo hard! Have a heart in you!" That is pathetic. I guess you people are in this culture too deeply to understand what rubbish it is.

And wait... You can not IMAGINE film about Keats better than this one? WHAT?!
To take into the air my quiet breath;
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To cease upon the midnight with no pain,
While thou art pouring forth thy soul abroad
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Re: What Music Do You Associate With Keats?

Postby marwood » Thu Feb 18, 2010 2:27 pm

I would imagine you are a very intelligent, well read and well educated young man/woman
and also a very serious one, who knows exactly what he/she likes and does not, nothing wrong in that.
But do you think there are times you need to stop analyising, and watch something for pure enjoyment?
Let Bright star wash over you, I thought it was wonderful, and at the end, yes I had tears running down these tired old cheeks! :oops:
Take care Nonedo.
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Re: What Music Do You Associate With Keats?

Postby Nonedo » Thu Feb 18, 2010 6:36 pm

It just doesn't goes that way. Emotions must roll over me as a tide and not dive myself with total concentration.
Plus I am a 94 April teenager, male.
To take into the air my quiet breath;
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To cease upon the midnight with no pain,
While thou art pouring forth thy soul abroad
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Re: What Music Do You Associate With Keats?

Postby Credo Buffa » Fri Feb 19, 2010 8:15 pm

Nonedo wrote:Oh, you can’t say "like this piece, the author tried soo hard! Have a heart in you!" That is pathetic. I guess you people are in this culture too deeply to understand what rubbish it is.

We're all just here for friendly discussion, and differing ideas are all a part of that. It's okay to disagree, but let's remember that everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion; no one here is "pathetic" for choosing to debate a contrary point of view. It's a film--there are no right or wrong answers. :)
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Re: What Music Do You Associate With Keats?

Postby Saturn » Fri Feb 19, 2010 9:01 pm

TO AVOID FAINTING,
KEEP REPEATING,

IT'S ONLY A MOVIE!

IT'S ONLY A MOVIE!

IT'S ONLY A MOVIE!

IT'S ONLY A MOVIE!

IT'S ONLY A MOVIE!

IT'S ONLY A MOVIE!
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Re: What Music Do You Associate With Keats?

Postby BrokenLyre » Fri Feb 19, 2010 11:08 pm

Ha ha ha ha... Saturn - nice one.... :D

We all bring our own mental baggage to any movie. I loved seeing something about Keats. I can analyze anything with the best of them (from Normative, Situational, Existential categories), but I also allow myself the luxury to enjoy what is presented. Sure, I'd love to see something different in the movie. Of course! But I went with the flow. The second time I saw it, I accepted it as is. An artistic take on Keats and Fanny.

I brought men and women of all ages to the movie and - believe it or not - they liked it and all cried at the end. Sappy? Maybe. I think it's because they can engage in the movie - enter into the emotional heartache that Fanny must have felt in losing Keats. One 70 year old woman who knows nothing of Keats said after watching it, "I loved it. It was so sad. And Fanny's gut wrenching cry is how I would feel! Oh! That scene was worth the price of admission." Imagine that.

I guess we're all cut out of a different cloth. I can't help but resonate to the life of Keats. It's in my DNA somehow :)
I get emotional (and I'm a trained scientist in physics and math!) because I can't easily be detached from scenes of heartache. It's not pathetic - it's being human.

It's just a movie....just a movie....just a movie... and I like it because I love John Keats.
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Re: What Music Do You Associate With Keats?

Postby Saturn » Fri Feb 19, 2010 11:46 pm

People expect too much of films I think and, when reading a novel, a poem or a biography, or listening to a song by our favourite artist we construct a deeply personal perception of who they are, and what kind of person, and kind of life they led. We identify ourselves to a certain extent with them, partake in a fellowship with them as we discover them, they become in effect sometimes almost like friends we know and love, and, like friends we become attached to them, and defensive about them if anyone attacks or criticises them.
Thus it's always impossible to do justice to or faithfully represent, either a historical figure, or fictional character that will satisfy everyone who has taken them to their own individual bosom and created their own unique version of them.

My Keats, the one I've come to know and love over the years will be very different from yours Raphael, or from anyone else's.
By that token, Jane Campion's Keats is her own personal idea of who Keats was, and again Ben Wishaw's portrayal is based on both the script, his personal vision of Keats and how he chose to inhabit the character of Keats.

All this is stating the obvious of course but I think it's worth exploring, the idea of a plurality of Keats's.

Perhaps this should be a new thread...

Tell us what kind of Keats you know...
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Re: What Music Do You Associate With Keats?

Postby Saturn » Sat Feb 20, 2010 8:31 am

'Shouting'? It's just a joke, a reference to a famous film poster; I was trying to inject a little humour into the discussion.

As for my 'unrestrained' comments on what Nonedo said, perhaps they were a little strong, I didn't realise until he posted more that he was just a young man with strong opinions; that never occurred to me when I read his post.

But, if you express a pretty strong opinion which I happen to disagree with passionately, I will disagree with it. That's my opinion, which is no more valid than anyone else's, it's just that, an opinion.

There is no intention to isolate anyone, and if Nonedo does feel isolated I'm not to blame. If your opinion goes against the grain and you express that strongly you have to expect equally strong disagreement. That's what happens in real life, and why should a forum be any different.

Believe me this forum is a walk in the park, a gentle refuge compared to the vast majority of online forums I've seen or been a part of where people abuse and attack each other like rabid dogs in the most despicable manner with no restraints at all.

Anyway, this topic is now closed.
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