Bright Star the movie website!

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Re: Bright Star the movie website!

Postby Raphael » Wed Nov 25, 2009 4:16 pm

I don't understand the criticism about Fanny remarrying. What do people expect her to have done, moped and cried and grieved for the rest of her life for Keats, would that somehow make her more fitting a romantic poetic fiance for Keats, to waste her life away in mourning ? :roll:


Well in those days it was difficult to be a single independant woman. If she had sustained such agonising grief it would have killed her somehow ( if she had not resorted to a bottle of laudanum)- so she gradually got over the anguish of his passing it seems.
That is more healthy I suppose, but the romantic dying for love was popular back then. Fanny doesn't come across as particuarly romantic though.


I'm sure Keats was in her heart always, but she had a life to live after him, she wanted children and to be married obviously, so after a very reasonable period of time she did that and I'm sure she had a reasonably happy rest of her life.


It seems so- tho it's kind of sad that it wasn't our dear poet she married and had children with. And why did she say later that she had "overrated" him? What was meant by that? Maybe by this time she had a crush on someone else( obviously not Louis)?
John....you did not live to see-
who we are because of what you left,
what it is we are in what we make of you.

Peter Sanson, 1995.
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Re: Bright Star the movie website!

Postby Saturn » Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:47 pm

Raphael wrote:Well in those days it was difficult to be a single independant woman. If she had sustained such agonising grief it would have killed her somehow ( if she had not resorted to a bottle of laudanum)- so she gradually got over the anguish of his passing it seems.
That is more healthy I suppose, but the romantic dying for love was popular back then. Fanny doesn't come across as particularly romantic though.


This is what I'm talking about though, what leads you to believe that she was less romantic just because she didn't end her days as a spinster weeping over Keats? How could she have done otherwise than she did? As you so rightly said in those days there was no such thing as independent women [unless we're talking about rich aristocratic women with the means to live without a husband].

What did Fanny have to do in your eyes to redeem herself.

I think you're being very harsh on her. She may have been a pragmatist, but she was a survivor. I have no doubt that in their time together she loved Keats as much as she could. Then he died, she was still very young, barely in her 20s. I don't know what age you are but it was a teen romance, for her. Whatever Keats felt he was a grown man, Fanny was just a girl pretty much, however precocious she may have been; she eventually had to go on living and trying to make the best of what had happened. Should she be condemned for it? I think not.

Keats wasn't perfect, either was Fanny; maybe he wasn't right for her in the end, maybe, had he lived their love might not have lasted at all, it might not have worked out, we'll never know.
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Re: Bright Star the movie website!

Postby Raphael » Thu Nov 26, 2009 3:27 pm

Well in those days it was difficult to be a single independent woman. If she had sustained such agonising grief it would have killed her somehow ( if she had not resorted to a bottle of laudanum)- so she gradually got over the anguish of his passing it seems.
That is more healthy I suppose, but the romantic dying for love was popular back then. Fanny doesn't come across as particularly romantic though.


This is what I'm talking about though, what leads you to believe that she was less romantic just because she didn't end her days as a spinster weeping over Keats? How could she have done otherwise than she did? As you so rightly said in those days there was no such thing as independent women [unless we're talking about rich aristocratic women with the means to live without a husband.What did Fanny have to do in your eyes to redeem herself.



No, you misunderstood me- I meant that it isn’t healthy to sustain agonising grief for a long period, that it would have been unbearable and led to extreme ill health or death. The image of the pining lover was a popular literary theme back then as we know. I don’t think it was one that Fanny was that into- she was too practical- that is in her favour really given what happened, as she had the fortitude to live on. My view of her being not that "romantic" isn’t a slur- it is in her favour- being "romantic" can often cause turmoil. Though she seemed to have enjoyed the love letters from John. :D Her practical nature allowed for her to get over John’s death and, eventually, her love for him so she could live on. There would be no other way to move forward in a healthy way.



I think you're being very harsh on her. She may have been a pragmatist, but she was a survivor. I have no doubt that in their time together she loved Keats as much as she could. Then he died, she was still very young, barely in her 20s.



I wasn’t meaning to be harsh at all- I actually think she was a pretty and interesting young lady and that Brown was cruel to her. The slurs on her character by people was downright mean and it upset poor John. I think she was good enough for him, though some people thought otherwise. That was explored so well in Bright Star I thought. I was actually referring to what biographers have written rather than my own opinions. The only thing that puzzled me was why she seemed to be ashamed of being associated with him later on (1829).


I don't know what age you are but it was a teen romance, for her.



I’m middle aged and well aware how young they were, but we can’t know that Fanny at the time didn’t take her love for him seriously, that it was a teen romance she would have grown out of ( eighteen back then was an adult compared to today- they had to grow up quicker)- that might be seeing her as playing with poor John and he didn’t want that! I think it might have taken her longer to love him as he did her but it’s obvious she did later on by what he writes in his letters and what she wrote to his sister.



Whatever Keats felt he was a grown man, Fanny was just a girl pretty much, however precocious she may have been; she eventually had to go on living and trying to make the best of what had happened. Should she be condemned for it? I think not.




Of course- I’m not condemning her at all- was pointing out that biographers have been harsh on her.



Keats wasn't perfect, either was Fanny; maybe he wasn't right for her in the end, maybe, had he lived their love might not have lasted at all, it might not have worked out, we'll never know.



Nobody is perfect but they may appear so in the eyes of the beloved.. :D
Who can tell if it would have lasted or not? I am certain they would have married though- they were gonna live with Mrs Brawne if he had got well. Maybe their love would have lessened in its intensity and calmed into comfortable contentment ( like most hot young love does). Whatever might have happened their love story is moving and in some ways an inspiration.
John....you did not live to see-
who we are because of what you left,
what it is we are in what we make of you.

Peter Sanson, 1995.
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