Is Carpe deim a proper lifestlye?

The life of John Keats the man: his family, his friends, and his contemporaries.

Moderators: Saturn, Malia

Is Carpe deim a proper lifestlye?

Postby Steen » Thu Mar 10, 2005 12:55 am

This may have been done already but since I am new I thought I would make the qustion. Basicly Keats message was live life to the full, or seize the day (Carpe Deim).
His poems such as La Belle Dame San Merci and Lamia ask us what is better. To live a meaningless but wonderful lie or should we get on with our lives in cold logic?
What do you think?
You don't love a women because she is beatiful, she is beatiful because you love her.
Steen
 
Posts: 80
Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2005 12:26 am
Location: Oxfordshire

Postby Saturn » Thu Mar 10, 2005 10:21 am

Interesting question and a very long-standing debate, at the heart of which lies a fundamental struggle between pre-Christian Classical ideal and Post-Christian modernist thought.

The actual quote "carpe diem" is a much misunderstood idea (as most people have got the idea from the film Dead Poets Society).
It was written by the Roman poet Horace in one of his famous odes.

The whole of the phrase, and much overlooked, is "carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero" which translates as "seize the day, trusting as little as possible to the morrow".

This simple phrase expresses one of the essential Classical dictums which was to live life in the present, as for the pagan Greeks and Romans there was no Christian hope of an afterlife to work towards, so they lived life as much as possible in the belief that the life they were leading was all that gods had granted them, so they resolved to use it wisely.

In today's post-christian society, I think we can more sympathise with this idea than people of the medieval to early modern periods who were constantly looking to the life beyond this one, often neglecting to live for the moment.
"Oh what a misery it is to have an intellect in splints".
Saturn
Forum Administrator
 
Posts: 3939
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2004 10:16 am

Postby Steen » Fri Mar 11, 2005 10:55 pm

But has anyone noticed how the ideas of romance and chiverly seem to be forgotten. I'm 18, and I see some of my other youths refering to their girlfriends as "bitches" or "Ho's".....quite frankly it sends shivers down my spine about how socity is changing...I could never refer to my girlfriend or anyone for that matter as a "bitch"....I think I'm lucky in that my friends seem to be the last working-class gentalmen and ladies aged 17-18 in Britain (or at least Oxfordshire). It isn't true but it seems it sometimes. We still have...umm...morals!

But living for the moment is a nice idea. But you would need money to maintain a life such as that....and love, which you can't buy and is damned hard to find.
You don't love a women because she is beatiful, she is beatiful because you love her.
Steen
 
Posts: 80
Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2005 12:26 am
Location: Oxfordshire

Postby Saturn » Fri Mar 11, 2005 11:03 pm

Yes, I totally agree with you about that. I would never call a girl a bitch or anything like that. I'm twenty-five and feel totally unable to relate to people my own age who think and act like that.

Chivalry and romance should not just be in books - only we the readers and poets can make it live again.

I'm broke myself by the way, so I couldn't live for the moment even if I wanted to. :cry:
"Oh what a misery it is to have an intellect in splints".
Saturn
Forum Administrator
 
Posts: 3939
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2004 10:16 am

Postby Becky » Mon Mar 14, 2005 12:49 pm

Kindness! Kindness and gentleness! Before its too late...
Becky
 
Posts: 92
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 6:11 pm

Postby Junkets » Mon Mar 14, 2005 3:24 pm

Stephen, I'm surprised by you. A Poet, Romantic, asthete and thinker and under the impression that you require money to be able to seize the day? Tsk tsk.
Junkets
 
Posts: 51
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 12:17 pm

Postby Saturn » Tue Mar 15, 2005 10:01 am

Yes, but I am realistic about these things - it's hard to seize the day when you can barely afford a packet of fags :wink:
"Oh what a misery it is to have an intellect in splints".
Saturn
Forum Administrator
 
Posts: 3939
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2004 10:16 am

Postby Becky » Tue Mar 15, 2005 10:45 am

Its easier to sieze the day if you don't smoke...Besides, who wants to live purely for the moment, anyway? You feel so unfulfilled and dissatisfied. Consider the future and be reasonable.
Becky
 
Posts: 92
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 6:11 pm

Postby Saturn » Tue Mar 15, 2005 12:18 pm

:( Yes, I'm thorougly ashamed and embarassed to say that I do smoke at the moment.

After nearly four years of not smoking, after a horrendously difficult and stressfull year last year I have started smoking on and off. Luckily I only smoke one or two a day, but as everyone knows, that is one or two too many.

I'm well upbraided. :?

I have no excuses, except weakness...
"Oh what a misery it is to have an intellect in splints".
Saturn
Forum Administrator
 
Posts: 3939
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2004 10:16 am

Postby Steen » Tue Mar 15, 2005 10:01 pm

But to seize the day money is need. I want to go to a few places in my life, such as Japan, Greece and other places...But I can't drop everything and go, I can't live for the moment. I am held back by money..I'm sure familly and friends would love to do just that if it was not for the money. If I blame anything for the loss of beatuy and kindness in the world then I blame the materalistic natureof the moden world. It's anything to horde as much money as possable, people like lawyers or bussnessmen crushing little bunessness and peoples liveyhoods for more money. It's, to me, sickening. But you can't fight against it or you get crushed. How can Chivlery ever hope to rekindle if the ideas of protecting the weak leads to bankruptcy?
You don't love a women because she is beatiful, she is beatiful because you love her.
Steen
 
Posts: 80
Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2005 12:26 am
Location: Oxfordshire

Postby Saturn » Wed Mar 16, 2005 9:46 am

Steen wrote:But to seize the day money is need. I want to go to a few places in my life, such as Japan, Greece and other places...But I can't drop everything and go, I can't live for the moment. I am held back by money..I'm sure familly and friends would love to do just that if it was not for the money. If I blame anything for the loss of beatuy and kindness in the world then I blame the materalistic natureof the moden world. It's anything to horde as much money as possable, people like lawyers or bussnessmen crushing little bunessness and peoples liveyhoods for more money. It's, to me, sickening. But you can't fight against it or you get crushed. How can Chivlery ever hope to rekindle if the ideas of protecting the weak leads to bankruptcy?


My thoughts exactly :)
"Oh what a misery it is to have an intellect in splints".
Saturn
Forum Administrator
 
Posts: 3939
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2004 10:16 am

Postby Junkets » Wed Mar 16, 2005 4:41 pm

I don't think I agree completely. I understand where you're coming from, that to travel the world in a manner, and lifestyle to which one is accustomed then money is an important factor. But I don't belive that it is impossible to travel to these places without money, the methods may not be strictly legal or comfortable, but if you put your mind to it it can be done. But it is to be remembered that the example provided by Steen uses the phrase in a particularly materialistic sense. There are of course limits to what we can do to seize the day, but then instant gratification (the scourge of the materialistic movement) is not always viable, specially when talking of travelling. I agree that I can't decide that, this very afternoon, I shall seize the day, drop everything and make my way half way across the world. But...if going half way across the world is what I want to do, then surely I could seize the day and begin the process of arranging said travels. On a physical level it can be difficult to seize the day and succeed, without money, but I have never considered seizing the day and money to be two things that are intrinsically linked. Though on reflection I can appreciate why someone would. Oh dear I've been thinking about this too much and think I'm going round in circles. I give up, as a result of an inability to express myself clearly.
Junkets
 
Posts: 51
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 12:17 pm

Postby Steen » Wed Mar 16, 2005 11:23 pm

Yes it's hard to put into words. But I think I understand what you are saying. But the point I am making is that the moden world does not allow us to live the romantic's life. It is hedonistic for a start and unpractical. However I feel that by chosing the moments you can seize then it makes them all the more meaningful. Indulging every whim, if possable, would lose it's appeal after a while. Albit a long while, but people need order and conformity to some extent. I mean, it makes being a freeing spirit all the more intresting.

(You can see, this is the kinda stuff we need on the site, more debates about the poems and his message.)
You don't love a women because she is beatiful, she is beatiful because you love her.
Steen
 
Posts: 80
Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2005 12:26 am
Location: Oxfordshire

Postby Becky » Thu Mar 17, 2005 10:44 am

Why bother worrying about "the mood of the times" not being congenial to romanticism? Make the mood of the times, your times. I think if you look at the mood of keats time, for example, it was achingly hedonistic and materialistic and the romantics came as a backlash with their love of the countryside, emotion and elevated ideals. Seize the day by not worrying about cash, just enjoy the situation you're in anyway

And you're right, this is much better than it was before
Becky
 
Posts: 92
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 6:11 pm

Postby Saturn » Thu Mar 17, 2005 11:13 am

The regency period was certainly in it's own way hedonistic and materialistic, but it's all relative - the kind of opportunities that money can give people today are way beyond the wildest dreams of any regency millionare.

I'm not a materialistic person myself - well maybe books and CDs are the exception (but literature and music are art and thus not totally useless possessions) but there are things that Iwould like to be able to achieve which cost money to buy. Freedom and independence are fine concepts, but in this modern western society things like transport and accomodation are costly things. I would love to be able to get off my parents hands and into my own flat and to have the freedom that a car can give, but these two things are way out of my reach in my present circumstances.

This is only my own situation, but I suspect as time goes on it will become an increasing problem.
"Oh what a misery it is to have an intellect in splints".
Saturn
Forum Administrator
 
Posts: 3939
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2004 10:16 am

Next

Return to Life and Letters

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest