Were the letters TO Keats ever published???

The life of John Keats the man: his family, his friends, and his contemporaries.

Moderators: Saturn, Malia

Were the letters TO Keats ever published???

Postby Fred » Thu Apr 14, 2005 7:36 pm

Somthing came up in class about Fanny B's letters to keats does anyone know if these are available for reading??

Actually Im more intrested in shelly's letters myself because I'd like to know if possible what led to the remark that im using as my signiture.

But anyway thanks if you know... those letters would make intersting reading.
My imagination is a monastery, and I am its monk. You must explain my metaphors to yourself.
Fred
 
Posts: 53
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2005 9:10 am
Location: Cloud Cuckoo land... for the time being

Postby Becky » Mon Apr 18, 2005 12:50 pm

In 'The Madwoman In the Attic', Ghubar has something interesting to say about this. F's letters to K were buried with him. F's letters to FK, however, were kept, and so are interesting for their evidence of her peronality, esp when she talks about him.
Becky
 
Posts: 92
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 6:11 pm

Postby RandiKeats » Sat Jun 25, 2005 3:01 pm

It would be so interesting to see Fanny's letters to Keats!! because as is we know little about her "real" feelings, but are just left to assume from what John and others say. But I would like to know more of her personality too. She surely had to be quite a girl to win John's affection so!!
"A heaven without you would cause me so much pain and a heaven with pain is simply ironic in name. By the waters, is surely, where it lays its claim. And that's where i'll be waiting for you... where the waters are their bluest blue.... "
RandiKeats
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2005 2:47 pm

Postby catlover » Mon Jul 11, 2005 4:32 am

From what I heard Fanny's letters to Keats were buried with him.It would be interesting reading but the way to get to them would be a bit problematic.If any others excist somewhere no one has found or came forward with them.
catlover
 
Posts: 40
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2004 6:14 am
Location: San Francisco

Postby Malia » Thu Jan 05, 2006 12:42 am

I've read that Keats burned most of the letters that were written to him. It was either his habit to do so, or he decided at the end of his life (before he went to Italy) to burn them as a kind of symbolic "good-bye" to his friends. I'm guessing that, for the most part, he just wasn't the type to keep others' letters.

It's true that Fanny B's last few letters--those she sent to Italy--were burried with Keats as were the letters sent to him in Italy by his sister Fanny.

I'd LOVE to be able to read Fanny Brawne's letters to Keats written during their courtship. It's hard to get a real "handle" on their relationship when it is so one-sided (i.e. we only get Keats's often distorted perspective on things). Really, we don't even have a complete picture on Keats's side, as several of his letters to Fanny Brawne were destroyed by his friends/early biographers after his death because they were considered too "low class", cruel and painfully passionate. They didn't at all reflect the image that they wanted to create of Keats as being a heroic, sensitive poet.
Stay Awake!
--Anthony deMello
User avatar
Malia
Forum Administrator
 
Posts: 1606
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 12:55 am
Location: Washington State, USA

The heart favors a poetic spirit of joy.

Postby jamiano » Mon May 08, 2006 7:34 pm

Hello to Everyone:




The sensation of beauty, aligned with love upon the imagination, reveals one's dearest longing.

Fanny represents Keats' attachment to the mortal realm of a desired relationship. An enduring quality of Fanny within the scope of Keats' genuis: the manner in which she tempers with his loveful myth of beauty.

Keats has been ridiculed for his infatuation with Fanny. Throughout Keats' creative voyages, he thrived upon the fancy, the natural, and the eternal. The spark of insight from Fanny upon Keats' poesy is rich: "I hold this hand out to thee..." I felt a pain reading the letters. I delight in discovering Keats' renewed joy for love within "Lamia".

"Lamia" is an exotic poem: one often asks, "Where am I?"

The complexity of "Lamia" is beyond me, but I am enriched of its sensual tone.

Keats' poetic genuis coupled with the scope of his lofty imagination is a fancy to treasure.

The heart favors a poetic spirit of joy.







peace to love,
jamiano
Last edited by jamiano on Thu Apr 03, 2008 7:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
jamiano
 
Posts: 53
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:14 pm

Postby dks » Tue May 09, 2006 4:28 am

Unfortunately, I suspect that Fanny's letters to Keats were most probably not nearly as passionate in nature as his were to her. Remember one of the last entries in her diary when he departed to Rome was simply, "Mr. Keats has left Hampstead."

Fanny had a propensity for light heartedness which both enthralled Keats and tortured him at the same time. His later 1820 letters to her reflect his almost frenzied imploring of her to "be serious." It is this part of their correspondence which delivers pangs to my heart--I know how much he wanted her to return his "purple riot" affections the same way he flung and poured them out to her; but he never quite obtained that from her.

Could have much more to do with Fanny's mother than we know... :(
"I am certain of nothing but the holiness of the heart's affections and the Truth of Imagination."
User avatar
dks
Dante
 
Posts: 1469
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2006 6:14 am
Location: Texas

Postby Saturn » Tue May 09, 2006 9:31 am

I think she just didn;t love him quite as much as he did her.

She may have felt sorry for him so she refused to break off the engagement or whatever but from all I've read about her she was something of a flirty and careless girl.

If not quite exactly a hussy she certainly caused Keats a lot of unecessary pain.
"Oh what a misery it is to have an intellect in splints".
Saturn
Forum Administrator
 
Posts: 3939
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2004 10:16 am

Postby dks » Tue May 09, 2006 2:23 pm

Saturn wrote:I think she just didn;t love him quite as much as he did her.

She may have felt sorry for him so she refused to break off the engagement or whatever but from all I've read about her she was something of a flirty and careless girl.

If not quite exactly a hussy she certainly caused Keats a lot of unecessary pain.


I'm with you on that, Saturn. Many people don't see that angle, though--they like to think there was a certain mutuality there--but honestly, I don't think there ever was. I'm not sure she didn't really feel for him until after he died, actually...perhaps out of sheer sadness and guilt. :?
"I am certain of nothing but the holiness of the heart's affections and the Truth of Imagination."
User avatar
dks
Dante
 
Posts: 1469
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2006 6:14 am
Location: Texas

Postby Malia » Tue May 09, 2006 7:25 pm

dks wrote:Unfortunately, I suspect that Fanny's letters to Keats were most probably not nearly as passionate in nature as his were to her. Remember one of the last entries in her diary when he departed to Rome was simply, "Mr. Keats has left Hampstead."

Fanny had a propensity for light heartedness which both enthralled Keats and tortured him at the same time. His later 1820 letters to her reflect his almost frenzied imploring of her to "be serious." It is this part of their correspondence which delivers pangs to my heart--I know how much he wanted her to return his "purple riot" affections the same way he flung and poured them out to her; but he never quite obtained that from her.




I'd like to stand up in Fanny Brawne's defense, here. True, she was *young*, flirtatious (which *many* decent young women were) and perhaps not as emotional or verbose as Keats, but that does not mean she didn't love him deeply. Different personalities--and temperments--respond in different ways. A more overtly emotional response does not necessarily indicate a deeper love. My brother Matt, for example, expresses his love for family and friends--even the *deepest* love he has--through practical acts of kindness. He's not the kind of person to say "I love you", let alone write sonnets about it. But that doesn't mean he isn't as deep a lover as any poet or artist.

Fanny seemed to be a "practical" lover--tending to Keats on his sick bed, lining his traveling cap with silk, providing him with the carnelian stone to cool his fevered fingers. . .these were all ways she said "I love you". There were probably other countless acts she performed for him out of love that have not been recorded or are lost with her letters.

I've read Fanny's letters to Fanny Keats and she appeared to be to be a very practical sort of person--not generally emotional (outwardly so). That was her personality. I personally don't want to jump to conclusions and say Fanny was not serious or was a heartless flirt because of things Keats said to her in his letters such as his imploring her to "be serious" about love not being a "plaything". Maybe she was just trying to lighten his mood a little and he took it to mean she didn't care about his love. We are only getting his very biased point of view, here.

Also, I think it is extremely poignant that Fanny wrote "Mr. Keats left Hampstead" in her diary. We know she wasn't a literary type of person and she wasn't the kind of person to pour out her feelings with words. Just because she didn't pour out her soul onto a page does not mean she didn't care or feel deeply for Keats or for her loss of him. She kept her private self very private.

I sometimes think Keats's love for Fanny is seen as some kind of poetically-inspired ideal. I don't think of Keats's love for Fanny in that way at all. Frankly, Keats's love for Fanny B. boardered on *obsession*, wasn't healthy (most of the time), and was sometimes extremely cruel. His love was often unreasonably jeallous, angry, impatient and mean for many reasons--many of which have little to do with Fanny, herself. (I'm thinking here of Keats's feelings about his mother--which definitely influenced how he responded to Fanny B.--and his fears of betrayal and abandonment in general.) Granted, I'm sure he truly cared for her and wasn't *always* obsessed, etc. And I think a practical lover--as Fanny appears to have been--is a good balancer for someone as emotional as Keats was. I think part of him must have been attracted to her for that reason.
Stay Awake!
--Anthony deMello
User avatar
Malia
Forum Administrator
 
Posts: 1606
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 12:55 am
Location: Washington State, USA

Re: Were the letters TO Keats ever published???

Postby Montmorenci » Thu Mar 18, 2010 3:00 pm

I know this thread is VERY old, but I do have a couple of questions/comments about Fanny's feelings or John. If she didn't love him deeply, when then did she cut her hair when he died, was in mourning for 6 years and wore the engagement ring until she died? To me that shows a very deep love for someone. Again, just curious to what your thoughts are.
User avatar
Montmorenci
 
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2010 3:21 am
Location: USA

Re: Were the letters TO Keats ever published???

Postby Raphael » Thu Mar 18, 2010 3:19 pm

melj wrote:I know this thread is VERY old, but I do have a couple of questions/comments about Fanny's feelings or John. If she didn't love him deeply, when then did she cut her hair when he died, was in mourning for 6 years and wore the engagement ring until she died? To me that shows a very deep love for someone. Again, just curious to what your thoughts are.



Agreed- she adored him! I have to leave the library Mel so I'll write you soem more of this tommorrow- but do read her letters to his sister- it is clear she loved him deeply. They are so sad and heartfelt I almost wept reading them.
John....you did not live to see-
who we are because of what you left,
what it is we are in what we make of you.

Peter Sanson, 1995.
User avatar
Raphael
Milton
 
Posts: 1845
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:10 pm
Location: wandering Keats' poetry

Re:

Postby Raphael » Thu Mar 18, 2010 11:23 pm

Here's my response to these:


Unfortunately, I suspect that Fanny's letters to Keats were most probably not nearly as passionate in nature as his were to her. Remember one of the last entries in her diary when he departed to Rome was simply, "Mr. Keats has left Hampstead."



I think she could not bear to write any more than that- it was too painful.If you read her letters to Fanny Keats she shows that she had great difficulty reading the letters from Joseph Severn and the markings John had put in the Spenser book for her after he had passed away- she gave the book to Fanny K. Also, she may not have wanted her mother or little Toots to find her emotional outpourings.Women those days were expected to keep certain feelings private. That goes for her letters to John- she probably felt unable to pour out her longings for him in a letter to him. What if her mother or Toots had seen what she was writing? She probably felt very constrained.


Fanny had a propensity for light heartedness which both enthralled Keats and tortured him at the same time. His later 1820 letters to her reflect his almost frenzied imploring of her to "be serious." It is this part of their correspondence which delivers pangs to my heart--I know how much he wanted her to return his "purple riot" affections the same way he flung and poured them out to her; but he never quite obtained that from her.


I do feel sorry for him when he implored her to be serious. I feel that she was trying to be cheerful despite what was happening and he was so ill of course he nddin't feel light hearted. Perhaps she was trying to make him feel it would all be ok and he would get well etc.
We don't know how much passion she did or didn't show him- but after all she was an innocent virgin and probably knew very little about the act of making love ( despite whatever feelings he aroused in her)- so she was inexperienced in such matters.

[quote]I'd like to stand up in Fanny Brawne's defense, here. True, she was *young*, flirtatious (which *many* decent young women were) and perhaps not as emotional or verbose as Keats, but that does not mean she didn't love him deeply. Different personalities--and temperments--respond in different ways. A more overtly emotional response does not necessarily indicate a deeper love. My brother Matt, for example, expresses his love for family and friends--even the *deepest* love he has--through practical acts of kindness. He's not the kind of person to say "I love you", let alone write sonnets about it. But that doesn't mean he isn't as deep a lover as any poet or artist. [quote]

Agreed- words do not mean everything!

[quote]Fanny seemed to be a "practical" lover--tending to Keats on his sick bed, lining his traveling cap with silk, providing him with the carnelian stone to cool his fevered fingers. . .these were all ways she said "I love you". There were probably other countless acts she performed for him out of love that have not been recorded or are lost with her letters. [quote]

I agree again- what she did for him was so loving. Her letters to his sister indicate she would have done for him what Joseph Severn did for him at the end. The way she called Fanny K "dear" shows such affection and love. She described how she loved her brother John and how heart broken she was about his suffering. To write that if she was to lose him she would "lose everything" shows how deeply she loved him.Her letters really moved me.


[quote]I sometimes think Keats's love for Fanny is seen as some kind of poetically-inspired ideal. I don't think of Keats's love for Fanny in that way at all. Frankly, Keats's love for Fanny B. boardered on *obsession*, wasn't healthy (most of the time), and was sometimes extremely cruel. His love was often unreasonably jeallous, angry, impatient and mean for many reasons--many of which have little to do with Fanny, herself. (I'm thinking here of Keats's feelings about his mother--which definitely influenced how he responded to Fanny B.--and his fears of betrayal and abandonment in general.) Granted, I'm sure he truly cared for her and wasn't *always* obsessed, etc. And I think a practical lover--as Fanny appears to have been--is a good balancer for someone as emotional as Keats was. I think part of him must have been attracted to her for that reason.[quote]




I don't think his love for her was intrinsically unhealthy or obsessive- intense yes, but given the constraints of the time, his money problems then his illness it must have made him feel vulnerable and desperate- any of us could have acted the way he did under those circumstances. What made you say he was cruel? I don't think he was cruel- I bet he never hit her or shouted at her. Fanny indicated that he was never "violent." Yes, he was jealous at times- but he thought her so beautiful ( which she was) and he feared she would find another suitor- he was amazingly unaware of his own physical beauty and magical presence. Those emotions as you say were based on fear. I get the impression she tried many times to assure him that she wanted only him, but given he made her keep their love secret it was difficult for her to socialise and not give away that she had an attachment to him. And in some of his letters he shows that he believed her, but his doubts based on his fears would creep in again. But- he could not have been so impossible or she would have given up on him and not agreed to marry him. I think by knowing him Fanny gained maturity and learned a lot from him- poetry, ideas etc. Her letters to his sister indicated that she loved reading with him and was enriched by knowing him. He was difficult at times- but hey he was worth it! On the whole he was a lovely, loving person and totally genuine.

PS- if one is familiar with Eckhart Tolle's teachings on the pain body then quite a few things make more sense...
John....you did not live to see-
who we are because of what you left,
what it is we are in what we make of you.

Peter Sanson, 1995.
User avatar
Raphael
Milton
 
Posts: 1845
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:10 pm
Location: wandering Keats' poetry

Re: Were the letters TO Keats ever published???

Postby laraffinee » Wed Aug 18, 2010 1:31 am

I wonder why Keats requested that Fanny Brawne's letters be destroyed upon his death. Why? Did his circle of friends encourage it? Why wasn't Fanny notified of his death before others were, such as Charles Brown, and as someone mentioned in another post, possibly Isabella Jones? Some biographers describe Fanny as being quite flippant. How flippant could a woman be who loved John Keats, betrothed herself to him, despite his lack of funds (a very big deal in that day), and mourned him in what seems to be a very sincerely grievious way? Did his literary circle have an agenda about creating/maintaining a persona around John Keats? Did his circle of friends dismiss her value and meaning to him because they could not see it.?
laraffinee
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2010 12:19 am

Re: Were the letters TO Keats ever published???

Postby Raphael » Wed Aug 18, 2010 10:40 am

laraffinee wrote:I wonder why Keats requested that Fanny Brawne's letters be destroyed upon his death. Why? Did his circle of friends encourage it? Why wasn't Fanny notified of his death before others were, such as Charles Brown, and as someone mentioned in another post, possibly Isabella Jones? Some biographers describe Fanny as being quite flippant. How flippant could a woman be who loved John Keats, betrothed herself to him, despite his lack of funds (a very big deal in that day), and mourned him in what seems to be a very sincerely grievious way? Did his literary circle have an agenda about creating/maintaining a persona around John Keats? Did his circle of friends dismiss her value and meaning to him because they could not see it.?


All you asked has been discussed in the thread- if you have a look back you will see your questions answered. :D
If you read Fanny's letters to Miss Keats you will see she was not flippant and loved him very much.
John....you did not live to see-
who we are because of what you left,
what it is we are in what we make of you.

Peter Sanson, 1995.
User avatar
Raphael
Milton
 
Posts: 1845
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:10 pm
Location: wandering Keats' poetry

Next

Return to Life and Letters

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

cron