The Keats wikipedia

The life of John Keats the man: his family, his friends, and his contemporaries.

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The Keats wikipedia

Postby Saturn » Mon Apr 17, 2006 11:00 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Keats

Opinions people - is there anything we can/should add to the entry?
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Re: The Keats wikipedia

Postby dks » Mon Apr 17, 2006 11:07 pm

Saturn wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Keats

Opinions people - is there anything we can/should add to the entry?


You kidding? Saturn? Malia? Credo? Despondence? I'm sure...I have to read the whole thing--do they mention how portentously emotive he is?? :wink: :lol:
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Postby Malia » Mon Apr 17, 2006 11:12 pm

Reading through it quickly, I notice that they don't mention anything about George--his importance to Keats, his marriage, his immigration or how he was the one who received some of the most profound letters Keats ever wrote.

Also, they say that Keats showed signs of TB on the Walking Tour. I'd disagree there and say that he showed signs of tonsilitis (he perhaps had chronic tonislitis). It was this infection that, in part, weakened his immune system so that he would contract TB while nursing Tom. (Or that any TB infection he might have already had would become active due to the lowered immune response brought on by the tonsilitis.)

They also say that Keats left his apprenticship with Hammond after a fight. I don't believe that's true. He disliked Hammond, but he fulfilled his apprenticeship.
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Postby Saturn » Mon Apr 17, 2006 11:12 pm

I haven't read it all myself - I was hoping you guys would do it for me :lol:

*cracks whip and laughs maniacally*

:twisted:




:lol:
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Postby Saturn » Mon Apr 17, 2006 11:13 pm

Malia wrote:
They also say that Keats left his apprenticship with Hammond after a fight. I don't believe that's true. He disliked Hammond, but he fulfilled his apprenticeship.


That's certainly untrue :roll:
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Postby dks » Mon Apr 17, 2006 11:18 pm

Saturn wrote:
Malia wrote:
They also say that Keats left his apprenticship with Hammond after a fight. I don't believe that's true. He disliked Hammond, but he fulfilled his apprenticeship.


That's certainly untrue :roll:


Everything Malia said is true--I'm knee deep finishing my paper right now with Motion, Ward and Hebron on my lap as I type this and I have seen nothing about a "fight" with his "master."

Also, there's nothing in detail about the Clarkes--esp. Cowden. Keats's friendship with him was the impetus for his initial ready access to so much wide ranging literature, including Lempriere and Spenser--and since Keats was not a student at university, studying rhetoric and literature--that friendship is especially important with regard to his defection from medicine to poetry.
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Postby Saturn » Mon Apr 17, 2006 11:19 pm

Well the whole principle of the wikipedia is that it is edited and written by its readers so you are free to correct them.
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Re:

Postby Raphael » Tue Jun 08, 2010 8:14 pm

Also, they say that Keats showed signs of TB on the Walking Tour. I'd disagree there and say that he showed signs of tonsilitis (he perhaps had chronic tonislitis). It was this infection that, in part, weakened his immune system so that he would contract TB while nursing Tom. (Or that any TB infection he might have already had would become active due to the lowered immune response brought on by the tonsilitis.)


It doesn't say that , it says he was exposed to the TB looking after Tom- he was too ill to continue the tour due to his cold, they don't say it was TB:


In June 1818, Keats began a walking journey around Scotland, Ireland and the Lake district with his friend Charles Armitage Brown. George and his wife Georgina accompanied them as far as Lancaster and then headed to Liverpool, from where the couple would emigrate to America.[18] [19][20] In July, while on the Isle of Mull for the walking tour, Keats caught a bad cold and "was too thin and fevered to proceed on the journey". [21] On his return south, Keats continued to nurse Tom, exposing himself to the highly infectious disease. Some biographers suggest that this is when tuberculosis his - "family disease" - first takes hold.
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Re: The Keats wikipedia

Postby Raphael » Tue Jun 08, 2010 8:16 pm

I hadn't looked at his wiki entry for awhile- it has a lot more added to it. I think it should be changed where it says he broke off his engagement to Fanny when he left for Italy- this isn't true- she refused to break it off, it says so in their letters and she wrote to Fanny Keats that they were getting married if/when he returned from Italy and he was going to live with the Brawnes.
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Re: The Keats wikipedia

Postby Ennis » Tue Jun 08, 2010 8:57 pm

I haven't read it in a while either. But, frankly, I thought Keats left his apprenticeship a year earlier than he would have, and doesn't he mention in one of his later letters (to George, I believe) that "this wasn't the same hand that had clenched itself at Hammond seven years earlier"? (I'm sure I'm misquoting) I know that doesn't support an actual fight, but it certainly suggests something was going on. I'm away from my Keats books right now, so I can't access the letters to document this as accurately as I would prefer.
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Re: The Keats wikipedia

Postby Raphael » Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:01 pm

Ennis wrote:I haven't read it in a while either. But, frankly, I thought Keats left his apprenticeship a year earlier than he would have, and doesn't he mention in one of his later letters (to George, I believe) that "this wasn't the same hand that had clenched itself at Hammond seven years earlier"? (I'm sure I'm misquoting) I know that doesn't support an actual fight, but it certainly suggests something was going on. I'm away from my Keats books right now, so I can't access the letters to document this as accurately as I would prefer.



Yes, he did write that to George. Now, he doesn't say raised his fist so it indicates that the two of them were having some disagreement or that Hammond was saying something that he found unpleasant and he clenched his hand at the words, maybe suppressing his anger or discomfort.
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Re: The Keats wikipedia

Postby Cybele » Wed Jun 09, 2010 2:46 am

Raphael wrote:
Ennis wrote:I haven't read it in a while either. But, frankly, I thought Keats left his apprenticeship a year earlier than he would have, and doesn't he mention in one of his later letters (to George, I believe) that "this wasn't the same hand that had clenched itself at Hammond seven years earlier"? (I'm sure I'm misquoting) I know that doesn't support an actual fight, but it certainly suggests something was going on. I'm away from my Keats books right now, so I can't access the letters to document this as accurately as I would prefer.



Yes, he did write that to George. Now, he doesn't say raised his fist so it indicates that the two of them were having some disagreement or that Hammond was saying something that he found unpleasant and he clenched his hand at the words, maybe suppressing his anger or discomfort.


He did mention clenching his fist at Hammond, but let's remember we're talking about a teen-aged boy with a temper. (Or is a "teen-aged boy with a temper" a redundant statement? :) ) I remember at least a couple of biographers speculating that his apprenticeship was broken off because of a disagreement, but I've never seen a really convincing argument that this was the case.

He seems to have had a shortened apprenticeship -- but I've wondered if the reason for this was not that there was an argument, but that Mr. Hammond had a very bright, clever apprentice. Keats was, after all, made a dresser shortly after enrolling at Guy's.
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Re: The Keats wikipedia

Postby Spanglej » Sat Jun 12, 2010 4:42 am

Hi,
This is an interesting discussion. It's me that has been re-writing the Keats article this year. And you're right - the write up of the ending of Keats' and Fanny's relationship is as yet unfinished and too vague. I'm working on it. Are there other missing pieces that you think (in a synopsis article like this) should be there? Would be v interested to get your informed opinions and delighted if you'd add pieces to the article itself with refs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keats if inspired.
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Re: The Keats wikipedia

Postby Raphael » Tue Jun 22, 2010 5:24 pm

I think you did a great job- maybe just add /alter from the suggestions we already made.
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Re: The Keats wikipedia

Postby Spanglej » Sat Jun 26, 2010 8:15 am

"Raphael » I think you did a great job- maybe just add /alter from the suggestions we already made."

I've added in most things mentioned. Fanny has her own page now. There seems lot of contradictory evidence on when Keats a) went off the idea of being a medic b) decided to leave the medical profession, c) gave up the idea definitively d) actually walked away. As far as I can see from Motion, Bates and Gittings there is a slow drift - cutting back his hours and progressively not sitting exams he would need. It seems that because he was so broke, because he, his family and friends were in such bad financial straits , because he had terrible reviews and because he had zero prospects, he couldn't just walk away with a clean early break once and for all.

He makes heated declarations about how much he hates medicine - but then he makes heated declarations about all sorts of things all the time. Doesn't help much.

Your thoughts appreciated.
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