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Bright Star

PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 1:02 am
by taylor!
in Line 4 of "Bright Star" Keats capitalizes both Nature and Eremite,

"Like Nature's patient, sleepless Eremite,"


What do you consider these a personification of? I was pretty stumped at that.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 1:29 am
by Apollo
Well the notations at the bottom of the page had said that Eremite was something religious. At the time I can't remember what it said so this is somewhat useless. Sorry.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 1:45 am
by Papillon
Just as a thought....capitalization doesn't necessarily imply personification! Keats may have had other reasons for capitalizing these words.

It might be symbolism. It might be an important object/thought. It might be just playing around with the format. It might be . . . . you get my drift!

PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 11:35 am
by Saturn
Eremite is a word used frequently by Milton - it was a extremely hard stone mentioned in the bible.

Keats here uses it as something permanent, enduring, immortal; like Nature herself.

And yes, capitalization does not always equal personification.

Eremites!

PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 6:06 pm
by Apollonius
Usually held to be an old version of the word "hermit". It is certainly used in that sense in "Eve of St Agnes".

If you read the eremite in Bright Star as a hermit, it adds to my idea on the other thread on this poem that Keats rejects the star for its distance and loneliness.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 10:44 pm
by taylor!
but it seems to me that he wouldn't speak so romantically about something if he was chastizing it; moreover comparing it to nature

Re: Eremites!

PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 11:47 pm
by Saturn
Apollonius wrote:Usually held to be an old version of the word "hermit". It is certainly used in that sense in "Eve of St Agnes".

If you read the eremite in Bright Star as a hermit, it adds to my idea on the other thread on this poem that Keats rejects the star for its distance and loneliness.


Yes I forgot that meaning of the word - you may very well be right :oops:

Re: Eremites!

PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 10:28 pm
by Apollo
Apollonius wrote:Usually held to be an old version of the word "hermit". It is certainly used in that sense in "Eve of St Agnes".

If you read the eremite in Bright Star as a hermit, it adds to my idea on the other thread on this poem that Keats rejects the star for its distance and loneliness.


While Eremite in this instance does mean "hermit", it was usually acompanied by religious connotations.

Re: Bright Star

PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2006 10:45 pm
by Black Fire
taylor! wrote:in Line 4 of "Bright Star" Keats capitalizes both Nature and Eremite,

"Like Nature's patient, sleepless Eremite,"


What do you consider these a personification of? I was pretty stumped at that.


Well if you read my reply in the section below this one " The Meaning Of Bright Star, my opinion would make more sense. So heres my thought according to my interpertation explained in the other section.

I portrayed Eremite as something close to Noah's arc. Because I interperted Keats on his way to Italy in this poem, and that the ship connection came up. And Keats wanted to have a hope of healing himself in Italy. And Noah's arc was the hope to save life, and so thats my reasoning for that. Noah's arc was confined, much like a hermit...just my thought.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 3:20 am
by ibasleep
During this time period Keats believed to be at one with God, was to be at one with nature, therefore nature could be capitalized to suggest that Nature itself is God. The holy power that is always around us, with the Eremite being the one who patiently seeks a better and closer connection with Nature therefore God. The Eremite is possibly Keats even showing his own self as someone religious and strong in their beliefs, which I believe he might have done as he feared death, therefore he sought for the refuge of eternal life through religion.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 10:54 am
by Saturn
ibasleep wrote: The Eremite is possibly Keats even showing his own self as a someone religous and strong in their beliefs, which I believe he might have done as he feared death, therefore he sought for the refuge of eternal life through religion.


No, no and no again - Keats was NOT religious :roll:

PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 6:26 pm
by dks
Amen, Saturn!!

:lol: :wink:

PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 10:23 pm
by ibasleep
Saturn wrote:
ibasleep wrote: The Eremite is possibly Keats even showing his own self as a someone religous and strong in their beliefs, which I believe he might have done as he feared death, therefore he sought for the refuge of eternal life through religion.


No, no and no again - Keats was NOT religious :roll:

Even if Keats is not a religious person, he still was brought up in a religious community and understood classical literature including the bible. Along with the fact that a poet does not have to be themselves in there poems, so who is to say that Keats did not feel like experimenting with a different perspective in this particular poem. Or even if Keats foreseeing his own death became scared and turned to God as many people do. There I believe based upon those assumptions, and my own personal interpretation, which I have supported, that this poem is religious in theme.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:08 pm
by Saturn
I'm not going to win this argument am I?

Thus ever with religious people and their unshaken faith in the truth of their own beliefs and convictions.

Rationality is impervious to this stone wall.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:12 pm
by ibasleep
A stone wall can crack and crumble to pieces, all it needs is something strong enough to break it. I would love to understand where you are coming from, show me, break my wall, prove what you are saying, with something more than he wasn't religous.