Keats attitudes to women

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Keats attitudes to women

Postby Fred » Tue Apr 12, 2005 12:11 pm

Hello,
Im new here and am doing A level english lit.
Any way I have this presentation on Keats attitudes to women and Im a little confused.
In aletter to George +georgina keats (october 25 1818)
he talks about not loving any woman and mot wanting to ever get married? is this a refletion of his attitude and if so what is he expressing in poems like La belle, lamia and the pot of basil??

any input would be really really nice
thankx :D
Fred
 
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Postby Becky » Wed Apr 13, 2005 1:46 pm

You're confused? Maybe he was confused, too! He was probably responding to taunts of so you're not married then, nudge nudge wink wink particularly about Fanny Brawne, whom he tried not to love but got secretly engaged to anyway. This part of k's psyche is a bit deep for me of a wednesday afternoon, but a good biography should have it covered.
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Postby Fred » Thu Apr 14, 2005 11:36 am

yeah i know that but what i should of said are the women victims or the 'baddies' in his poem.
Like in La belle there are 2 views either:

a) Common view - she is some kind of evil elf thing that umm lores the poor honorable knight in view of killing him.

b)femminest view- that her wild eyes were an indication of fear and that she was semi- kidnapped by him and he basicly got what he diserved.

Also in another strain
Becky said:
His female characters are amazingly strong for his time...maybe they were an inspiration to keats, who also has amazingly strong women.

And I just dont agree I mean look at Isbella she just went bonkers and lamia suddenly dying and giving into luicus wishes like that.
Although i will addmitt that in context with the time they are probably quite decisive.
My imagination is a monastery, and I am its monk. You must explain my metaphors to yourself.
Fred
 
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Postby Becky » Thu Apr 14, 2005 1:13 pm

But does she go mad? Unconventional she may be in her grief, but she seems strong in her devotion. She hasn't necessaarily lost her sense

She had no knowledge when the day was done


is not necessarily madness, but supreme devotion to her task of grief. Admittedly, intense victimhood and grief is not a great example to woman, but Isabella does have some power in the poem, obviously over Lorenzo but also over her brothers, whom she leads into guilt and remorse over her past. you would be right in saying they have the ultimate power over what happens, but she has the ultimate power over her emotions. She chooses to keep his head.

I was really meaning the The Eve of St Agnes

No dream, alas! alas! and woe is mine!
«Porphyro will leave me here to fade and pine. -


leads Porphyro to take her with her. Female power here is always power over the male, but women are not weakly submissive to their fate. Angelica in Ariosto's Orlando Furioso is similar in that she enchants men into falling in love with her and sends her would-be husband mad.
Last edited by Becky on Thu Apr 14, 2005 2:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Fred » Thu Apr 14, 2005 1:20 pm

hum right I see its differant interpritation of power but thanks Ill be sure to add that to my compiling notes on women in keats.
Actually thinking about it Lamia has power 'cause she sort of blackmails/bribes/armtwists hermies in to giving her human form right??

could you explain eve of st agnes very quickly for me becuse i just do not understand that poem exept as examples of differant tecniques keats uses.

:lol:
My imagination is a monastery, and I am its monk. You must explain my metaphors to yourself.
Fred
 
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Postby Becky » Thu Apr 14, 2005 2:41 pm

Off the top of my head, bearing in mind i might get things wrong or miss stuff out

Its a chilly January the 21st (27th?), St Agnes Eve, when the patron saint of virgins, Agnes, is supposed to show a girls future husband in a dream if you pray to her. So, I think, though since you ask its not all that clear to me either, in one of those seperate shrine booths saints have, Madeline prays whilst, unbeknownst to her, Porphyro, madly in love with her, looks on. When Angela, an old woman, finds him, she shuffles him into a room to hide from Hildebrand et al who are after him to kill him. Between them, Angela and Porphyro hatch a plan to woo Madeline. Eventually she goes to bed, and while she sleeps and dreams of him, he surrounds her with fragrant, exotic foods, and when she wakes, she sees her dreams have come true. They decide to run off together into the stormy night, but there's still the danger he'll be stopped and killed, and as she's with him, she might be punished too.

The beadsman is a cleric, I think, who acts as a contrast to the pasionate lovers. He prays on, regardless, but its a little confusing to read, i know!
Becky
 
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Postby Fred » Thu Apr 14, 2005 7:22 pm

yes thanks
it was a bit confusing i think because it was my introduction to keats and at the time i didnt like him and wanted to do Blake. But In the end im glad i did do it because I think keats is one of those things the more you think about the more intresting it gets.
My imagination is a monastery, and I am its monk. You must explain my metaphors to yourself.
Fred
 
Posts: 53
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2005 9:10 am
Location: Cloud Cuckoo land... for the time being

Postby Becky » Wed Apr 20, 2005 9:48 am

Speaking of which, what exactly happens in Endymion? As you say, the first keats poem is always the hardest, and a great deal of it went over my head. :oops: :oops: :oops:
Becky
 
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Postby Fred » Thu Apr 21, 2005 7:14 am

not exactly sure as not reading it until friday but wasnt it just sort of random like hyperion so he could fill 4,ooo lines??
My imagination is a monastery, and I am its monk. You must explain my metaphors to yourself.
Fred
 
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Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2005 9:10 am
Location: Cloud Cuckoo land... for the time being


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