Quick qustion

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Quick qustion

Postby Steen » Tue Apr 26, 2005 10:30 pm

In an A2 contex paper appartly we may have to included how Keats' personal experince fits into his poems such as: Medical training, Art, Music and religon
Do you look know any poems that metion these things?
You don't love a women because she is beatiful, she is beatiful because you love her.
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Postby Fred » Wed Apr 27, 2005 8:12 am

I dont know if you are doing the AQA exam , obivously but if you are you do know there are 11 contextual factors in all dont you?

Anyway the idea of art is connected to rommantisim, and you could use lots of the odes life grecian urn and er I cant think right now but the beginig of endymion is also relevant. All that stuff abut beauty and truth.

Music is again Ode to grecian urn and any referance to soud of any kind.

The medicine is his knowledge of poisons in Melencholy and there is a suggestion that apollo from hyperion is Keats alter ego (apollo was god of medicine and music!

You can also use his letters if it is the Aqa exam you arte doing but you only use them to back up points not extensive indeptyh quotes or analysis of them.
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Postby Steen » Wed Apr 27, 2005 10:16 pm

Yeah...sadly we never get to really look at the letters. I have to do that myself. So I never know if I am understanding it right. But they are useful. I may have to print a few off....I do love the ones to Fanny Brawne though! So sweet.
Yes I am doing the AQA one....only have an hour...not enough
You don't love a women because she is beatiful, she is beatiful because you love her.
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Postby Fred » Thu Apr 28, 2005 4:14 pm

yes you doing othello with it?
I dont think the letters to Fanny are sweet thoug I think they are Chavanistic!
The really useful letter s I found were to george and georgina keats also the one to shelly is interesting too.
But basicly they ar important to show that romantisii is a frame of mind, a way of life. And to illistrating things like his love of nature and his Ideas about fame imortality and poetry.
8)
My imagination is a monastery, and I am its monk. You must explain my metaphors to yourself.
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Postby Steen » Thu Apr 28, 2005 9:53 pm

"I have so much of you in my heart that I must turn Mentor when I see a chance of harm befalling you. I would never see any thing but Pleasure in your eyes, love on your lips, and Happiness in your steps."

I'm sorry, how can that not be sweet? Ok he was conviced that he was destined for greatness so probley got a bit carried away.

No I am not studying Othello, I am studying Merchent of Venice. Lovely story about a possable homosexual love triangle and a vengful Jew who wants to cut somones heart out in public....I see why it is a classic :?
You don't love a women because she is beatiful, she is beatiful because you love her.
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Postby Fred » Fri Apr 29, 2005 11:43 am

I just dont find it sweet that all. Probably because I dont belive in the exsistance of love and other emotions. Not really.

Why are all the shakspear classics possibly homosexual? Did you know that Iago is supposed to have hated Othello and tried to destroy him so much because he loved him?

Actually I had better revise my earlier point as it got me in trouble in my literature class. I belive that "love" is a state of mind, that in fact all emotions are so that if you belive in it you are capable (spelling??) of feeling it ( whatever it feels like) if you dont like me, you cant ever end of story. sort of like a Placibo effect only not.

That doesnt stop me from reading or watching films or books with it in, I mean for me a really good book or film will have dragons, fairies ( basically fantasy sci-fi stuff) in it and I dont belive in them either.
My imagination is a monastery, and I am its monk. You must explain my metaphors to yourself.
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Postby Steen » Fri Apr 29, 2005 8:57 pm

Of course love is a state of mind, however it is possbably the most overwheming state of mind you can get. True love is a addiction as it were, to the feeling that state of mind provides, which is why it is given so much praise. Nothing else can compair with the self-satisfaction, sense of well being and joy that you get knowing that someone loves you. It is a state of mind, but is the most consuming state of mind. Aside from Faith and honour and patiotiusm, love is one of the only ideals that people would willingly die for. Something like that is too powerful to dismiss.

The reason most of Shakespeares poems had the issue of homosexuality is because it was am acceptable and common thing at the time. Since marrages were often for conviance or buissness it was not uncommon for people to take lovers of the same gender simply to fill the emotional void they would feel if they had to spend the rest of thier life with someone they didn't love, or mabye not even like. It's only in the 19th centruy that homosexuality became to be seen as a disorder and indecent. Nowadays it's beginning to become more acceptable, which is nice as I belive that mutal love of all types should be allowed. I'm not homosexual myself, I simply am not attacted to people of the same sex, but I have a good number of gay or bisexual friends and am often shocked at how spiteful some people can be towards them. Love is love in my view....
You don't love a women because she is beatiful, she is beatiful because you love her.
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Postby Saturn » Fri Apr 29, 2005 9:10 pm

Steen wrote:Of course love is a state of mind, however it is possbably the most overwheming state of mind you can get. True love is a addiction as it were, to the feeling that state of mind provides, which is why it is given so much praise. Nothing else can compair with the self-satisfaction, sense of well being and joy that you get knowing that someone loves you. It is a state of mind, but is the most consuming state of mind. Aside from Faith and honour and patiotiusm, love is one of the only ideals that people would willingly die for. Something like that is too powerful to dismiss.

The reason most of Shakespeares poems had the issue of homosexuality is because it was am acceptable and common thing at the time. Since marrages were often for conviance or buissness it was not uncommon for people to take lovers of the same gender simply to fill the emotional void they would feel if they had to spend the rest of thier life with someone they didn't love, or mabye not even like. It's only in the 19th centruy that homosexuality became to be seen as a disorder and indecent. Nowadays it's beginning to become more acceptable, which is nice as I belive that mutal love of all types should be allowed. I'm not homosexual myself, I simply am not attacted to people of the same sex, but I have a good number of gay or bisexual friends and am often shocked at how spiteful some people can be towards them. Love is love in my view....


Totally agree on most of this but it's a bit misleading to say it was totally acceptable in Elizabethan society - it was, as it has been in since it was stigmatised by the Church an illegal and criminal act which was fromwoned on by the vast majority of peopl, even if it was practised in private by people as it always has been.
"Oh what a misery it is to have an intellect in splints".
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Postby Steen » Fri Apr 29, 2005 9:29 pm

Yeah I remeber that it's always been a issue with the church due to the fact that the Bible often condems it.
But then again I share something with Keats himself in that I dislike organised religion. Why should devine matters and the will of God be left to imperfect humans? Who are they to TELL us what to belive and what to do. People should follow the bible as they see fit, not how an organisation (that has for centuries been subject to claims of corruption and hipocracy) thinks people should express their faith. I am sorry if I offend any church-followers reading this, It is not my intent to upset anyone. It's just I can understand why Keats disliked organised religion and the churches refuseal to accept the validity of the love present in homosexual relationships (which is just as vaild as the love in a hedrosexual relationship) really does wind me up. If "God is love" as a benevevloent being should by definition be, why to his repersentaives on earth deny two people the right to express their love? It is hypocritcal and hurtful and should not go on.

Yes...I'm a screaming, ranting Libral...so sue me...everyone else does! :P
You don't love a women because she is beatiful, she is beatiful because you love her.
Steen
 
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Postby Saturn » Fri Apr 29, 2005 10:17 pm

There's nowt wrong with being a liberal - I'm one too - live and let live everybody :D

No-one has the right to tell someone else how to live their life and who they love or not.
"Oh what a misery it is to have an intellect in splints".
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Postby Steen » Sat Apr 30, 2005 2:54 pm

Lol....that reminds me of a really funny incident. Me and my Friends are quite libral as well. We had a sixth form debate in which our local constervative MP came down to mediate the debate. The subject was Asylem seekers and we learned a few things in the debate. We learned that no-one in Didcot sixth forms minded aslyem seekers and that no-one in didcot sixth forms would vote conservative!
When the MP asked weather anyone would vote constervative we was awarded with silance, apart from a few of my friends shouting "VOTE LIB DEM!!!!"

And these dudes are going to oxford this year so any counter-argument he had for them would have had to have been good...coz some of my friends are frighteningly smart!
You don't love a women because she is beatiful, she is beatiful because you love her.
Steen
 
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Postby Fred » Sat Apr 30, 2005 6:15 pm

No-one has the right to tell someone else how to live their life and who they love or not.

There is an excepton to that mind you, society does it all the time.
E.g if I were to tell you I was going to Blow up a bus of Nursery school kids I should hope you would try and stop me! and technically thats telling me how to live my life!
(Id never do it mind you, I have no sympathy with killing of innocents, the guilty maybe but not the innocent)
Then again who decides whose guilty?

sorry but I do love to play devils advocate :twisted: !

I dont understand the term "organised religion" still, I can sort of understand where your coming from I mean God is supposed to be Omniesent right? so if you belive in him how does it matter how you worship him? According to my religion even inanimate objects worship and obviously they dont need a church or particular prayers do they?
However arguably without organisation and structure christianty would not be the worlds largest religon.
On the other hand more people can I dentify the symbol for Mcdonalds than of the Cross as the symbol of cristianity so maybe Mcdonalds has become a religon? :shock:
My imagination is a monastery, and I am its monk. You must explain my metaphors to yourself.
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Postby Saturn » Sat Apr 30, 2005 8:46 pm

Okay Devil's advocate, I get your point - of course I didn't mean you should sit back and let people do evil things, just that in ordinary day life no one should dictate other's behaviour in the everyday domestic matters.
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Postby Steen » Sun May 01, 2005 2:25 am

The point is you if you could blow up a school and kill loads of people would you really do it? Are you sure you could handle the guilt and shame that you would suffer?
In a ideal world we wouldn't need rules. We KNOW it is wrong to kill. Its an inbuilt socal ristrant.
We have a consance for a reason.
You don't love a women because she is beatiful, she is beatiful because you love her.
Steen
 
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Postby Fred » Sun May 01, 2005 11:49 am

Actually I dont think it is really. Have you ever seen the film "THey shoot horses, dont they?" with Robert Redford? Anyway Im t alking about a homicidal lunatic not me, though for all you know I may be one steen and some people dont know it is wrong to kill society teaches then that.

And Stephen thats exactly my point what is evil who decides, people, God, who? And if God how else are people meant to find out except by organised religion? And even if some people decide it is wrong they have to tell others force them to their way of thinking. Thats what the law is afterall and I for one am greatful for it other wise we'd be living in total anarchy.

I just love the sound of that word anarchy!!
:roll:
My imagination is a monastery, and I am its monk. You must explain my metaphors to yourself.
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