My Recent Observation

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My Recent Observation

Postby Cowden » Tue Jun 01, 2010 2:08 pm

Is it me, or is the youth of today (I feel like a hippocrate, because i'm only 25); anyway: is it me or is the youth of today being greatly consumed by text messaging, iPods, Xbox and electronics like that?

Just looking for some input :)


Cheers,
Cowden
I would sooner fail than not be among the greatest. -John Keats
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Re: My Recent Observation

Postby Saturn » Tue Jun 01, 2010 2:29 pm

It's all relative, when I was a teenager it was all music and walkmans, Segas and Nintendos, it's nothing new to this generation, they just have more gadgets to play with these days.
"Oh what a misery it is to have an intellect in splints".
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Re: My Recent Observation

Postby Pjerrot » Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:29 pm

As a young person, I have not found the attraction to much of what the American teenager deems "necessary" in today's society. I get by without texting, an iPod, or any sort of video game quite nicely. But then again, I have a very different sort of mindset when compared to others of my generation.
Ah! I will taste that dew, for me ’tis meet,/And when the moon her pallid face discloses,/I’ll gather some by spells, and incantation.
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Re: My Recent Observation

Postby Saturn » Tue Jun 01, 2010 5:36 pm

Good for you! Don't look down on people who do have those things and enjoy them though, just accept them how they are and hope they accept you too.
"Oh what a misery it is to have an intellect in splints".
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Re: My Recent Observation

Postby Raphael » Tue Jun 01, 2010 11:13 pm

Cowden wrote:Is it me, or is the youth of today (I feel like a hippocrate, because i'm only 25); anyway: is it me or is the youth of today being greatly consumed by text messaging, iPods, Xbox and electronics like that?

Just looking for some input :)


Cheers,
Cowden



Yes- as Saturn says there are more gadgets than ever- but some youths think of little else and hardly read books- they could not write such intelligent, philosphical, interesting letters as did our dear Junkets! I don't mind computers and CD players but not TV- got rid of that a few years ago. I have never been one for computer games- the squirrels frolicking in the park are far more entertaining! I'd rather be watching the local wildlife.
John....you did not live to see-
who we are because of what you left,
what it is we are in what we make of you.

Peter Sanson, 1995.
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Re: My Recent Observation

Postby Raphael » Tue Jun 01, 2010 11:14 pm

Pjerrot wrote:As a young person, I have not found the attraction to much of what the American teenager deems "necessary" in today's society. I get by without texting, an iPod, or any sort of video game quite nicely. But then again, I have a very different sort of mindset when compared to others of my generation.


Methinks you belong in another time Pjerrot... :wink:
John....you did not live to see-
who we are because of what you left,
what it is we are in what we make of you.

Peter Sanson, 1995.
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Re: My Recent Observation

Postby Saturn » Wed Jun 02, 2010 12:25 am

Raphael wrote: they could not write such intelligent, philosphical, interesting letters as did our dear Junkets!


The again could you? can I? I think not...

Don't forget

"...Who alive can say,
'Thou art no Poet may'st not tell thy dreams?'
Since every man whose soul is not a clod
Hath visions, and would speak, if he had loved
And been well nurtured in his mother tongue."

Keats was immersed in the preoccupations, the past times of his own age which lucky for him happened to be low-technology, and also don't forget Keats didn't have to work for a living, he wasn't toiling in the fields, he led a relatively fortunate life because of the provisions made by his parents/guardians and was lucky to have friends able to provide for him when he was in need. He wasn't of course rich, but had the luxury of time to be able to read and study and think that the great majority of the poor, working class of his own time didn't have, and he was very lucky to be well educated when education was not universal as it is now.

Give the kids of today a break; they know nothing different than a world of electricity, of TV, of mobile phones etc,. but then very few people except the remotest, most inaccessible tribes alive today have ever actually lived in a non-electrical world. Modern technology certainly has its drawbacks, and its distractions but putting aside these, would you really like to live in Keats world when infant, nay adult mortality was appalling, when disease was rampant, misunderstood and mistreated, when medicine was a combination of a little science, a little guesswork and no anesthetic, when ordure flowed in the streets, when monarchs harvested the fat of the land to fritter away on their own vanity, and parliaments were representative of nothing but the aristocracy, when the people were transported, hung from gibbets, drawn and quartered in public, when slavery was still a legal trade....I could go on...and on...

We must on no account have any rose-tinted view of life in Keats' time, it was tough, brutal, and short for the vast majority of people.

I admire the scholarship, the artistry, the learning of those in Keats and his circle, and his contemporaries, but I wouldn't wish to live in a world even more unequal and harsh than our own.

It was ever thus that people looked to the past as a golden age of light and learning , but as Ovid said


“O how your century deceives you,
If you think honey is sweeter than cash
Even in Saturnus’ reign I hardly saw anyone
Whose soul did not respond to sweet lucre.
In time, love of possessions grew. Now at its height,
It can scarcely proceed any further.
Wealth has more value now than in earlier times,
When people were poor, when Rome was new,
When a little hut contained Quirinus, child of Mars.
And river grass supplied a tiny bed.”
"Oh what a misery it is to have an intellect in splints".
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Re: My Recent Observation

Postby Raphael » Wed Jun 02, 2010 3:52 pm

The again could you? can I? I think not...


I can write letters that might be of interest to my friends- but the of the quality of John's that future generations read and marvel at- indeed not! He was a genius.


Don't forget

"...Who alive can say,
'Thou art no Poet may'st not tell thy dreams?'
Since every man whose soul is not a clod
Hath visions, and would speak, if he had loved
And been well nurtured in his mother tongue."


:D

Keats was immersed in the preoccupations, the past times of his own age which lucky for him happened to be low-technology, and also don't forget Keats didn't have to work for a living, he wasn't toiling in the fields, he led a relatively fortunate life because of the provisions made by his parents/guardians and was lucky to have friends able to provide for him when he was in need. He wasn't of course rich, but had the luxury of time to be able to read and study and think that the great majority of the poor, working class of his own time didn't have, and he was very lucky to be well educated when education was not universal as it is now.




Yes- what loyal friends he had indeed- he was penniless in his last few months (not knowing there was still some money left for him at Chancery) and they paid for his trip to Italy. If he had lived longer and not got the money owed to him he might have had to have taken some kind of employment every so often- he wasn't that well off- he had few possessions and no permanent home ( but if he had been able to marry Fanny he would have). Certainly though, he was much better off than John Clare, despite John Clare's poems selling well in the first few years. I've not been able to understand how Mr Clare wasn't made so much better off by the sales of his poems. Where on earth did his money go? The biography didn't make that clear for me. At least he was given the opportunity to learn to read and write- most of his village friends couldn't, or at least very poorly.



Give the kids of today a break; they know nothing different than a world of electricity, of TV, of mobile phones etc,. but then very few people except the remotest, most inaccessible tribes alive today have ever actually lived in a non-electrical world.



Yes, I know that, but there is an abundance of information, books etc out there- so really no excuse to be ignorant- so many of them know little of their history, where they came from etc. I've met young people who don't know what year the Norman Conquest was for example, what Stonehenge is, what century the Elizabethan ear was and so forth. Funnily enough mainland European youngsters are much more knowledegable- and they still love all their i-pods and computer games etc.




Modern technology certainly has its drawbacks, and its distractions but putting aside these, would you really like to live in Keats world when infant, nay adult mortality was appalling, when disease was rampant, misunderstood and mistreated, when medicine was a combination of a little science, a little guesswork and no anesthetic, when ordure flowed in the streets, when monarchs harvested the fat of the land to fritter away on their own vanity, and parliaments were representative of nothing but the aristocracy, when the people were transported, hung from gibbets, drawn and quartered in public, when slavery was still a legal trade....I could go on...and on...





You paint a grim and realistic picture Saturn, but there was also good things about it- much less pollution, craftsmanship, slower pace of life, community, in the case of John true loyal friendship, composers and artists of genius, stunning countryside free of plastic rubbish tips, no nuclear weapons and power stations which threaten it's survival, the rainforests were not being torn down (which will kill the planet) - for all our technology we are living in precarious times.In fact- it's the unwise use of technology which threatens to kill the planet.

And for all the *medical advances*- they still cannot cure my eczema.They tell me to use useless steriods which are harmful and do nothing to help. I'm seeing a homeopath and researching herbal remedies.



We must on no account have any rose-tinted view of life in Keats' time, it was tough, brutal, and short for the vast majority of people.




And in about 40 years' time it will be the same again- as a result of pollution, deforestation, etc. The 21st century is no golden age.It will be our nemesis.



I admire the scholarship, the artistry, the learning of those in Keats and his circle, and his contemporaries, but I wouldn't wish to live in a world even more unequal and harsh than our own.




I know what you mean- but at least the ecosystem was not on the point of collapse.I know a bloke who refuses to have electricty- he moved in to a new flat and has a teepee in his sitting room instead of a bed and didn't has his electricty cut off. He states that electricty is destroying the world- he really hates it. He wants to live like American Indians( I didn't point out to him that most Indians now have electricity! :roll: ). He hates the Western world and admires tribal people who live without electricty and technology. I told him electricty is fine if not over used and if it was generated from green sources such as wind, wave etc then it is in harmony with the planet.



It was ever thus that people looked to the past as a golden age of light and learning , but as Ovid said


“O how your century deceives you,
If you think honey is sweeter than cash
Even in Saturnus’ reign I hardly saw anyone
Whose soul did not respond to sweet lucre.
In time, love of possessions grew. Now at its height,
It can scarcely proceed any further.
Wealth has more value now than in earlier times,
When people were poor, when Rome was new,
When a little hut contained Quirinus, child of Mars.
And river grass supplied a tiny bed.”



Yes. indeed, but this century is no golden age either. Plastic Fantastic! :!:
John....you did not live to see-
who we are because of what you left,
what it is we are in what we make of you.

Peter Sanson, 1995.
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Re: My Recent Observation

Postby Pjerrot » Wed Jun 02, 2010 4:29 pm

Methinks you belong in another time Pjerrot...


Perhaps :wink:

I've not been able to understand how Mr Clare wasn't made so much better off by the sales of his poems. Where on earth did his money go?


I believe I've either heard or read somewhere that Clare was an alcoholic but I'm not entirely certain.

Yes, I know that, but there is an abundance of information, books etc out there- so really no excuse to be ignorant- so many of them know little of their history, where they came from etc. I've met young people who don't know what year the Norman Conquest was for example, what Stonehenge is, what century the Elizabethan ear was and so forth.


It seems to me that so many people live only for the here and now, and pay little regard to anything extra that might inhibit them from keeping up with today's rushing society. I feel a bit dead inside when I can't converse at a gathering about the latest episode of [title of popular television show] with my own family and friends. I don't blame them for indulging in their own interests, I simply wonder how on earth I can function socially in public without knowing these things. And I definitely in no means wish to be back in the "good old days" (i.e. Keats's era) however glamorous it may outwardly appear. A little bit of solid history derails a superficially romantic notion of any era past.
Ah! I will taste that dew, for me ’tis meet,/And when the moon her pallid face discloses,/I’ll gather some by spells, and incantation.
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Re: My Recent Observation

Postby Raphael » Wed Jun 02, 2010 4:42 pm

Methinks you belong in another time Pjerrot...


Perhaps :wink:




Time to build that Time Machine perhaps? :lol:


I believe I've either heard or read somewhere that Clare was an alcoholic but I'm not entirely certain.



I get the impression he drank a lot of beer at certain times, not sure if he was a total alchoholic though.



It seems to me that so many people live only for the here and now, and pay little regard to anything extra that might inhibit them from keeping up with today's rushing society.



I hate all that rushing about- the traffic putside my window is so loud- hardly lets up. The noise is somewhat softened by the birds chirping and trilling in the trees outside my window. I live by two parks, so plenty of wildlife for an urban area- many birds, squirrels, bats, foxes (not seen one but heard them in the night) etc. I heard a Tawny Owl hooting a few weeks ago! :D



I feel a bit dead inside when I can't converse at a gathering about the latest episode of [title of popular television show] with my own family and friends. I don't blame them for indulging in their own interests, I simply wonder how on earth I can function socially in public without knowing these things.



I get you there- I have no TV as it bores me. Just do a Keats go and sit by the window and gaze out- when people drone out about useless drivel! :lol:
I can imagine him rolling his eyes at the "conversations" people have about vacuous tv shows and talentless plastic popstrells.


And I definitely in no means wish to be back in the "good old days" (i.e. Keats's era) however glamorous it may outwardly appear. A little bit of solid history derails a superficially romantic notion of any era past.



Yes..but wouldn't you have liked to have been a dinner guest at The immortal Dinner?
John....you did not live to see-
who we are because of what you left,
what it is we are in what we make of you.

Peter Sanson, 1995.
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Re: My Recent Observation

Postby Pjerrot » Wed Jun 02, 2010 7:41 pm

Time to build that Time Machine perhaps? :lol:


If it isn't too schmaltzy to say so, I use music, books, poetry, and the like to escape to wherever I want to be [cue "In My Own Little Corner"]. I started upon Keats's Endymion and I hope to finish it by the end of summer. That and a multitude of other planned projects to hopefully complete.

I live by two parks, so plenty of wildlife for an urban area- many birds, squirrels, bats, foxes (not seen one but heard them in the night) etc.


I live very near a conservancy. I very much like going there in the afternoon of a languid summer's day and indulge myself in the sights, smells, and sounds of nature. I'm not familiar with any of the avian creatures across the pond but here in the States a favorite of mine is the red-eyed vireo: I prefer the more drab birds because of their interesting habits and calls. While many other young men are toiling away in the summer's heat at sports, I spend my days with my Muse, however fleeting she may be.

Yes..but wouldn't you have liked to have been a dinner guest at The immortal Dinner?


I'm certain of that. There is a book on that evening, isn't there?
Ah! I will taste that dew, for me ’tis meet,/And when the moon her pallid face discloses,/I’ll gather some by spells, and incantation.
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Re: My Recent Observation

Postby Raphael » Wed Jun 02, 2010 8:11 pm

If it isn't too schmaltzy to say so, I use music, books, poetry, and the like to escape to wherever I want to be [cue "In My Own Little Corner"]. I started upon Keats's Endymion and I hope to finish it by the end of summer. That and a multitude of other planned projects to hopefully complete.



No indeed! Endymion is perfect for a wander in another time/place.. :D



I live very near a conservancy. I very much like going there in the afternoon of a languid summer's day and indulge myself in the sights, smells, and sounds of nature. I'm not familiar with any of the avian creatures across the pond but here in the States a favorite of mine is the red-eyed vireo: I prefer the more drab birds because of their interesting habits and calls. While many other young men are toiling away in the summer's heat at sports, I spend my days with my Muse, however fleeting she may be.



Birds are very interesting. The feathered ones have been very happy today as I keep putting bread out- the Jays and Blackbirds have been coming all day on and off! I hear them chirp excitedly when I put another helping out! The female Blackbird has been very noisy today- in fact she is chirping loudly as I send this- and I have just googled the bird you mention- hardly drab- it is beautiful!

Here is the song of the male Blackbird:
Their song is one of the most beautiful of British birds.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVOJCALQ ... 1&index=16

The females don't *sing*, are brown, but make a cute chirping sound.


Yes..but wouldn't you have liked to have been a dinner guest at The immortal Dinner?

I'm certain of that. There is a book on that evening, isn't there?


There is yes. I'll buy it one day.
John....you did not live to see-
who we are because of what you left,
what it is we are in what we make of you.

Peter Sanson, 1995.
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Re: My Recent Observation

Postby Pjerrot » Wed Jun 02, 2010 9:24 pm

Thanks for the link to the blackbirds song. Our blackbirds (aside from the Baltimore oriole) don't have much in terms of music and voice. However, the brown-headed cowbird male's song is both liquid and metallic, its kind of interesting.
Ah! I will taste that dew, for me ’tis meet,/And when the moon her pallid face discloses,/I’ll gather some by spells, and incantation.
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Re: My Recent Observation

Postby Raphael » Wed Jun 02, 2010 11:50 pm

Pjerrot wrote:Thanks for the link to the blackbirds song. Our blackbirds (aside from the Baltimore oriole) don't have much in terms of music and voice. However, the brown-headed cowbird male's song is both liquid and metallic, its kind of interesting.


I hope you like Blackbird's song- I hear them every day- there are lots where I live. What is your favourite bird (for its song) where you live?
John....you did not live to see-
who we are because of what you left,
what it is we are in what we make of you.

Peter Sanson, 1995.
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Re: My Recent Observation

Postby Pjerrot » Thu Jun 03, 2010 4:37 am

What is your favourite bird (for its song) where you live?


This is a difficult question! I think I will choose the hermit thrush even though I've only heard one sing once.
Ah! I will taste that dew, for me ’tis meet,/And when the moon her pallid face discloses,/I’ll gather some by spells, and incantation.
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