Frederic Chopin's cause of death

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Frederic Chopin's cause of death

Postby Raphael » Sat Aug 07, 2010 6:14 pm

It seems that it wasn't tuberculosis but cystic fibrosis:

http://www.scrippsnews.com/node/22431

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/tomserv ... eitmatters

I agree with this- he was ill for far too long for it to be tuberculosis- that takes a person within a year after it becoming active.

Poor Frederic- CF is a horrible condition.

http://www.chopin-society.org.uk/articl ... -heart.htm
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Re: Frederic Chopin's cause of death

Postby Pjerrot » Sat Aug 07, 2010 10:55 pm

Thank you for the links Raphael. It hadn't occurred to me that the length of his disease was quite prolonged but I also am not too familiar with the course of tuberculosis.

The second link you posted upset me a bit: I don't think that anyone's remains should be tampered with, even in the name of science. There is something about disrupting a person's last wishes that is disturbing.
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Re: Frederic Chopin's cause of death

Postby Raphael » Sat Aug 07, 2010 11:23 pm

Thank you for the links Raphael. It hadn't occurred to me that the length of his disease was quite prolonged but I also am not too familiar with the course of tuberculosis.


Yes- poor Frederic was ill for a long time- yet he managed to give concerts when he was weak. That was his dedication to his music.


The second link you posted upset me a bit: I don't think that anyone's remains should be tampered with, even in the name of science. There is something about disrupting a person's last wishes that is disturbing.


I know- but the priests would have to agree to it and also both his descendents- and the priests haven't been approached and one of his descedents said no. I'm sorry it upset you Pjerrot- you know how much I admire and respect this composer- I hope they leave his heart in the Church and don't touch it.Of course people would like to know if indeed he had CF- but I think it's pretty obvious he did.
John....you did not live to see-
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what it is we are in what we make of you.

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Re: Frederic Chopin's cause of death

Postby Pjerrot » Sat Aug 07, 2010 11:58 pm

Yes- poor Frederic was ill for a long time- yet he managed to give concerts when he was weak. That was his dedication to his music.


From the Liszt biography (it perhaps should be more of a memoir than a biography) it was stated that the audience failed to realize that his latest concert in Paris was to be his last there.

I know- but the priests would have to agree to it and also both his descendents- and the priests haven't been approached and one of his descedents said no. I'm sorry it upset you Pjerrot- you know how much I admire and respect this composer- I hope they leave his heart in the Church and don't touch it.Of course people would like to know if indeed he had CF- but I think it's pretty obvious he did.


It would set me at rest to know what he actually died from but I think it would be best to leave it as he wished -- he had suffered long and does not need to be disturbed. I understand the significance of a situation where a body may need to exhumed to solve devastating crimes and diseases, but this just seems to be out of curiosity and speculation. The other article you provided seemed to provide definitive proof that it was cystic fibrosis that took him.
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Re: Frederic Chopin's cause of death

Postby Raphael » Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:51 am

From the Liszt biography (it perhaps should be more of a memoir than a biography) it was stated that the audience failed to realize that his latest concert in Paris was to be his last there.



Ahh... that's kind of bittersweet. Imagine seeing him play- if I had a time machine....


It would set me at rest to know what he actually died from but I think it would be best to leave it as he wished -- he had suffered long and does not need to be disturbed.



I agree. Frederic's heart was in Poland (he so loved Poland and longed for Poland to be free...) and he wished his heart to remain there.


I understand the significance of a situation where a body may need to exhumed to solve devastating crimes and diseases, but this just seems to be out of curiosity and speculation.



Yes indeed- for crime purposes is quite different.


The other article you provided seemed to provide definitive proof that it was cystic fibrosis that took him.


I think it was rather than Consumption- he was ill far too long for it to have been that.

They have built a museum to him in Poland- I'd love to go there one day and see it.

I've been playing the Fantaisie Impromptu for hours this evening ! It is just so beautiful.

And to think if I hadn't gone to the art gallery for the tour guide lectures/training I would never be listening to this music...I hated Classical music not so long ago! I had never even heard of Frederic Chopin til the art history lecturer told us about him and how his piano playing was something new and different. Being curious, I had to find out what she meant...
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Re: Frederic Chopin's cause of death

Postby Pjerrot » Sun Aug 08, 2010 1:41 am

I've been playing the Fantaisie Impromptu for hours this evening ! It is just so beautiful.

And to think if I hadn't gone to the art gallery for the tour guide lectures/training I would never be listening to this music...I hated Classical music not so long ago! I had never even heard of Frederic Chopin til the art history lecturer told us about him and how his piano playing was something new and different. Being curious, I had to find out what she meant...


I know exactly what you mean. If it hadn't been for the strange fate of acquiring an old, broken piano, I don't know where I'd be right now. There was something specific in classical music that moved me so much that I have become entangled within its beauteous snares. It has given me much comfort when nothing else seemed to.

They have built a museum to him in Poland- I'd love to go there one day and see it.


I shall have to keep that in mind if I may one day visit Europe. That, and Norway's fjords that inspired Edvard Grieg.
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Re: Frederic Chopin's cause of death

Postby Raphael » Sun Aug 08, 2010 2:00 am

I know exactly what you mean. If it hadn't been for the strange fate of acquiring an old, broken piano, I don't know where I'd be right now. There was something specific in classical music that moved me so much that I have become entangled within its beauteous snares. It has given me much comfort when nothing else seemed to.


And as you restored the old broken piano it helped restore you... :D
What a lovely thing to happen.

I was given a keyboard- it has a nice piano setting on it. Alas, I haven't been able to learn to play it yet due the eczema on my hands and arms. But once I'm clear I shall try to learn, but as I'm 42 I'm probably too old to learn now...if only I had learned when I was younger...well I sort of did when I was 18- I had a middle sized keyboard and started teaching myself to read music and play a bit. I could play a bit by ear too- but it was pop songs then tho.I didn't keep it up- I needed a teacher really.

But here's an odd thing- I also have a little tiny keyboard that was left in the hall a two years ago- nobody knew where it came from so I gave it a home. I was listening to a Sigur Ros song last year- big piano bit- and I could "see" in my mind what the keys were..or I thought they were- so I got the keyboard and tried to play along- and yes they were the right keys because the sound of my playing merged into the song...so maybe there is hope I could learn to play yet?

I've got an acoustic guitar too- was learning that ok, had got to knowing some chords and was learning to play Scarborough Fair. (free classes at an adult centre) then the eczema struck so the guitar sits on its stand all woeful wanting to be played.None of my visitors can play it tho as it is a left handed one! Yet I'm right handed- I couldn't do a thing on the right handed one I had.I had been given the right handed one- so I gave it to the guitar tutor for his class.

Much as I love guitar, the piano is my favourite instrument- I can hardly listen to piano music without my hands itching to play what my ears hear. My goodness my fingers are tingling listening to Chopin right now! I can see and feel myself playing it- do you know what I mean?

I'm being a bit wistful...but the fact that the little keyboard mysteriously appeared like that in the hall and then a friend begged me to take the big one off her might be fate trying to tell me to learn to play...

I'm way too broke to have been able to buy any.


I shall have to keep that in mind if I may one day visit Europe. That, and Norway's fjords that inspired Edvard Grieg


Yes- I'd love to see the Norwegian fjords. I love Morning- brings tears to my eyes.The flutes sound just like birds.
John....you did not live to see-
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what it is we are in what we make of you.

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Re: Frederic Chopin's cause of death

Postby Pjerrot » Sun Aug 08, 2010 2:49 am

And as you restored the old broken piano it helped restore you... :D
What a lovely thing to happen.


What a wonderful thought :D

But here's an odd thing- I also have a little tiny keyboard that was left in the hall a two years ago- nobody knew where it came from so I gave it a home. I was listening to a Sigur Ros song last year- big piano bit- and I could "see" in my mind what the keys were..or I thought they were- so I got the keyboard and tried to play along- and yes they were the right keys because the sound of my playing merged into the song...so maybe there is hope I could learn to play yet?


Something of the muse? That is truly incredible, I'm sure there is hope for you to play yet. I'll have to listen to Sigur Ros... Icelandic, correct? Someone once told me that a piece I was working on sounded like an Icelandic band, Sigur Ros may have been the name.

I've got an acoustic guitar too- was learning that ok, had got to knowing some chords and was learning to play Scarborough Fair. (free classes at an adult centre) then the eczema struck so the guitar sits on its stand all woeful wanting to be played.None of my visitors can play it tho as it is a left handed one! Yet I'm right handed- I couldn't do a thing on the right handed one I had.I had been given the right handed one- so I gave it to the guitar tutor for his class.


I could not handle guitar properly -- it was quite a sight. That, and violin. I tried to teach myself a bit but didn't take to the small space for my arm and fingers. It gave me a new appreciation for string players everywhere. Left-handed? I'm left-handed but I don't think reversing things would be much help to me!

Much as I love guitar, the piano is my favourite instrument- I can hardly listen to piano music without my hands itching to play what my ears hear. My goodness my fingers are tingling listening to Chopin right now! I can see and feel myself playing it- do you know what I mean?


That is a feeling that comes over me when I listen to much piano music. It is difficult for me to truly sit back and indulge in the soundwaves but I manage somehow. I have a recording of Grieg's piano concerto that allows the orchestral part to be played on a CD while the soloist can perform in the comfort of his or her own home. I have not attempted that yet as the music is a bit above my level :roll: . Have you listened to any Debussy? I get a little heady with all those sensuous harmonies swirling about my ears...

I'm being a bit wistful...but the fact that the little keyboard mysteriously appeared like that in the hall and then a friend begged me to take the big one off her might be fate trying to tell me to learn to play...


I'm not sure about you but fate seems to give me little hints and signs of things all the time. I find that much of what we wish for earnestly and honestly does come around for us at some point.
Ah! I will taste that dew, for me ’tis meet,/And when the moon her pallid face discloses,/I’ll gather some by spells, and incantation.
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Re: Frederic Chopin's cause of death

Postby Raphael » Sun Aug 08, 2010 3:23 am

What a wonderful thought :D


Have you still got the piano? What type is it?


But here's an odd thing- I also have a little tiny keyboard that was left in the hall a two years ago- nobody knew where it came from so I gave it a home. I was listening to a Sigur Ros song last year- big piano bit- and I could "see" in my mind what the keys were..or I thought they were- so I got the keyboard and tried to play along- and yes they were the right keys because the sound of my playing merged into the song...so maybe there is hope I could learn to play yet?


Something of the muse? That is truly incredible, I'm sure there is hope for you to play yet. I'll have to listen to Sigur Ros... Icelandic, correct? Someone once told me that a piece I was working on sounded like an Icelandic band, Sigur Ros may have been the name.


I can quite often listen to something and then pick out the chords/keys. In fact once I was listening to Greig's Morning and on the mobile phone I had at the time, you could key in a song for the ring tone- so I listened to a bit, keyed it in, listened a bit, keyed in, etc, til I had the beginning bit of it. I then looked at sheet music for Morning and I had exactly the right notes on the phone ( the phone had the musical notes on it so you could see what they were)!!! Even more strange was the fact that when I read the manual on how to key in a song I couldn't understand it, and it was only by doing it by ear and intuition I could do it. The guitar tutor told me if I can "play" by ear like that (I told him about my "playing" by ear experiences) I must have latent musical ability- he said not many people can do that. I'm not sure if he was just being nice though lol. Now, I don't mean I can just listen and play it all perfectly- no, but I can pick things out.
He also does keyboard classes at the adult centre- I was going last year but had to stop as the gallery training was on the same day.I'm going back in September- the eczema WILL be gone!!!!
Yes- Sigur Ros are Icelandic- their piano player is classically trained and it shows!



I could not handle guitar properly -- it was quite a sight. That, and violin. I tried to teach myself a bit but didn't take to the small space for my arm and fingers. It gave me a new appreciation for string players everywhere. Left-handed? I'm left-handed but I don't think reversing things would be much help to me!



Did you try on a left handed guitar?



That is a feeling that comes over me when I listen to much piano music. It is difficult for me to truly sit back and indulge in the soundwaves but I manage somehow. I have a recording of Grieg's piano concerto that allows the orchestral part to be played on a CD while the soloist can perform in the comfort of his or her own home. I have not attempted that yet as the music is a bit above my level :roll: .


Well one day you will...


Have you listened to any Debussy? I get a little heady with all those sensuous harmonies swirling about my ears...



Is Clair de Lune by him? If so then yes- I love that.That was one Classical I always liked- it was in a Michelle Pffiefer (sp?) film.


I'm being a bit wistful...but the fact that the little keyboard mysteriously appeared like that in the hall and then a friend begged me to take the big one off her might be fate trying to tell me to learn to play...



I'm not sure about you but fate seems to give me little hints and signs of things all the time. I find that much of what we wish for earnestly and honestly does come around for us at some point.



I'd like to think so...I'll never be that good at playing the piano now as I'm too old, but a little yes...that would be good.
John....you did not live to see-
who we are because of what you left,
what it is we are in what we make of you.

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Re: Frederic Chopin's cause of death

Postby Pjerrot » Sun Aug 08, 2010 4:25 am

Have you still got the piano? What type is it?


Yes, I still have it. Its an upright Baldwin/Hamilton (it has both company names on it and I'm not sure why) from the 1940's I believe.

Did you try on a left handed guitar?


No. I'm afraid to touch another string instrument for fear of anyone within earshot!

Is Clair de Lune by him? If so then yes- I love that.That was one Classical I always liked- it was in a Michelle Pffiefer (sp?) film.


Yes, it is. It is one of his most popular pieces probably because of its rather conservative harmonies (when compared to his other pieces) and simple melodies. Most of Debussy's later works delve into a world of strong dissonances and unresolved harmonies that can be uncomfortable to many listeners. I don't mind it myself seeing as how I think of music as something to be experienced rather than something to be controlled and calculated -- music is like a painting, play, or movie. People don't go to the gallery or theatre to experience the same portrait or film copied after another: we want to see bold, exciting changes!
Ah! I will taste that dew, for me ’tis meet,/And when the moon her pallid face discloses,/I’ll gather some by spells, and incantation.
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Re: Frederic Chopin's cause of death

Postby Raphael » Sun Aug 08, 2010 3:12 pm

Yes, I still have it. Its an upright Baldwin/Hamilton (it has both company names on it and I'm not sure why) from the 1940's I believe.


Where did you get it from? I love the fact that you restored a lovely old piano. All pianos should be loved and cared for. I've got a book on old musical instruments- got it for 50p from a second hand book shop. The photos of old harpsichords and spinets are wonderful! the craftmanship of these old instruments is quite something. They were painted with scenes, inlaid with semi precious stones etc. I've seen some spinets and harpsichords from the 1700's in an art gallery and they are so sweet and little compared to big modern pianos! The piano was a big change in keyboards I have read. I have found an artilce on wiki which has a sound clip of a Chopin piece played on a c.19th piano and a modern one. There is a difference in sound- the new piano sounds much louder:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piano



No. I'm afraid to touch another string instrument for fear of anyone within earshot!



If you tried on a left handed one it would be quite different for you..

Is Clair de Lune by him? If so then yes- I love that.That was one Classical I always liked- it was in a Michelle Pffiefer (sp?) film.




Yes, it is. It is one of his most popular pieces probably because of its rather conservative harmonies (when compared to his other pieces) and simple melodies. Most of Debussy's later works delve into a world of strong dissonances and unresolved harmonies that can be uncomfortable to many listeners. I don't mind it myself seeing as how I think of music as something to be experienced rather than something to be controlled and calculated -- music is like a painting, play, or movie. People don't go to the gallery or theatre to experience the same portrait or film copied after another: we want to see bold, exciting changes!



I don't know any of his other pieces, well not that I know of. I think they have played him on Classic FM tho- can't remember names of any pieces though. They are playing a lot of Frederic Chopin right now- because it is the 200th anniversary of his birth. I'm not sure I'd like the rest of Debussy's works- I'm not one for dissonances. That's if what I'm imagining it to sound like is what it would sound like! I'm one for lush harmonies!
John....you did not live to see-
who we are because of what you left,
what it is we are in what we make of you.

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Re: Frederic Chopin's cause of death

Postby Pjerrot » Sun Aug 08, 2010 4:59 pm

Where did you get it from? I love the fact that you restored a lovely old piano. All pianos should be loved and cared for.


The school nearby was going to throw it away so our family decided to take it. I'm sorry if I was vague, but we didn't do anything to restore it, simply cleaned it up a bit. The soundboard is supposedly broken which means it isn't tuneable.

I don't know any of his other pieces, well not that I know of. I think they have played him on Classic FM tho- can't remember names of any pieces though. They are playing a lot of Frederic Chopin right now- because it is the 200th anniversary of his birth. I'm not sure I'd like the rest of Debussy's works- I'm not one for dissonances. That's if what I'm imagining it to sound like is what it would sound like! I'm one for lush harmonies!


Here's a link to the second movement of Debussy's "Nocturnes:" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQSPQqh9K5U
It gives a musical depiction of a nighttime festival with a procession that becomes merged within it.

Another nocturne, this time by Grieg: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znn3DwL2dfY
Ah! I will taste that dew, for me ’tis meet,/And when the moon her pallid face discloses,/I’ll gather some by spells, and incantation.
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Re: Frederic Chopin's cause of death

Postby Raphael » Sun Aug 08, 2010 5:36 pm

The school nearby was going to throw it away so our family decided to take it.


Throw a piano away!!! :cry: I can't believe it!!!

I'm sorry if I was vague, but we didn't do anything to restore it, simply cleaned it up a bit. The soundboard is supposedly broken which means it isn't tuneable.



Does it play allright? Do you play it? Maybe a new soundboard can be got for it. I'm so glad you gave it a home. I bet it is beautiful.

My keyboard bless it, isn't as pretty as a piano. It is grey plastic! But I am so happy to have been given it. It is called "Acoustic solutions MK-928." It has many sounds on it, including grand piano, bright piano, flat pianos 1 and 2, clavinet, harpsichords 1 and 2. The little casio has a bassoon sound on it! The poor little thing is so dusty- I must clean it.

Thanks for the links- I'll listen to them next time I go to the library internet (on headphones...) as my 02 mobile broadband connection is too weak to play you tube.I'd be interested to see how Debussy's and Greig's nocturnes compare to those of Chopin! I've just downloaded (from amazon) the etude opus 25 no 12 in c minor- magnificent!!! Very dramatic.... Sweeping...carries one away. It's so exciting for me for there are so many Chopin pieces I haven't heard. I started off with the nocturnes (that is what the art history lecturer told me about)and my neighbour had some of the sonatas on his PC so came up and put them on my PC for me.It amazes me all the different styles of music Chopin could come up with on one instrument.

I also like Rachmaninov's paganini piece- I'm not sure of the correct title.It's one of his most famous ones. As you can the piano classical pieces are my favourite. :D
John....you did not live to see-
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what it is we are in what we make of you.

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Re: Frederic Chopin's cause of death

Postby Pjerrot » Sun Aug 08, 2010 10:48 pm

Does it play allright? Do you play it? Maybe a new soundboard can be got for it. I'm so glad you gave it a home. I bet it is beautiful.


It plays quite well except where the hammers are broken on the bottom two keys and where I've managed to somehow break a few strings and offset the hammers. I try to not let myself get too carried away because it isn't a repairable instrument; the soundboard is too much of a complication to be any worth replacing. It is also because of the horrible tuning that some of the more difficult keys to play in are the only pleasant-sounding.

I also like Rachmaninov's paganini piece- I'm not sure of the correct title.It's one of his most famous ones. As you can the piano classical pieces are my favourite. :D


Rhapsody on a theme of Paganini. I haven't listened to it -- Rachmaninov doesn't really "thrill" me.

I listened to the links about the different pianos. I prefer the darker tonal color of the older piano but much prefer the clarity and crispness of the modern piano.
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Re: Frederic Chopin's cause of death

Postby Raphael » Sun Aug 08, 2010 11:30 pm

It plays quite well except where the hammers are broken on the bottom two keys and where I've managed to somehow break a few strings and offset the hammers. I try to not let myself get too carried away because it isn't a repairable instrument; the soundboard is too much of a complication to be any worth replacing. It is also because of the horrible tuning that some of the more difficult keys to play in are the only pleasant-sounding.


Poor piano- it must have been mistreated in its past. Have you got another one as well?


Rhapsody on a theme of Paganini. I haven't listened to it -- Rachmaninov doesn't really "thrill" me.


That's the only one of his I know.


I listened to the links about the different pianos. I prefer the darker tonal color of the older piano but much prefer the clarity and crispness of the modern piano.



The older one is how it would have sounded when the great Frederic played it! Yes, the tone of the older one is quite different. I cannot say which I prefer.

Look at these gorgeous old pianos on this website- they must be worth thousands....The craftmanship back then.

http://www.periodpiano.com/index.html

Do you know the name of the Mendlesshon piece? It's really lovely.
John....you did not live to see-
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what it is we are in what we make of you.

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