Frederic Chopin's cause of death

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Re: Frederic Chopin's cause of death

Postby Pjerrot » Mon Aug 09, 2010 12:25 am

Unfortunately I do not have any other piano to play on.

The Mendelssohn piece in the background in the Venetian Boat Song, op. 19 no. 6.
Ah! I will taste that dew, for me ’tis meet,/And when the moon her pallid face discloses,/I’ll gather some by spells, and incantation.
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Re: Frederic Chopin's cause of death

Postby Raphael » Mon Aug 09, 2010 12:30 am

Unfortunately I do not have any other piano to play on.


But I bet you love it anyway. :D You gave a poor unwanted piano a home.I bet it still sounds nice.It probably has more tone than my electronic keyboard.


The Mendelssohn piece in the background in the Venetian Boat Song, op. 19 no. 6.


Thanks Pjerrot! I'll see if that is in the mp3 files on Amazon. It's a lovely melody. Did you look at the old pianos? Imagine playing one of those....
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Re: Frederic Chopin's cause of death

Postby Pjerrot » Mon Aug 09, 2010 1:24 am

Did you look at the old pianos? Imagine playing one of those....


Many of them have very interesting designs. Without the music the instruments stand alone as works of art. I think many past pianists would be amazed at how much the piano has changed over the years.
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Re: Frederic Chopin's cause of death

Postby Raphael » Mon Aug 09, 2010 1:56 am

Many of them have very interesting designs. Without the music the instruments stand alone as works of art. I think many past pianists would be amazed at how much the piano has changed over the years.


I think they are simply gorgeous! If I was rich I would buy one of those! I bet they sound amazing. I don't think the c.19th composers would much impressed with electronic keyboards though. You don't get the same tone on them. I hope one day I'll have the money to move to a bigger place and get an upright piano. A girl I know got one for £50 on e-bay!
But for now, I'm happy with the keyboard. I'm lucky to have been given it.The upsides of it are that it is very light, takes up little space, and has a volume control so I can have it on low so as not to drive the neighbours mad! I wish it had more piano sounds on it though- most of the sounds it has are things I wouldn't even bother with. My brother got an old (even then) synthesiser years ago ( in the 1980's) and he took it apart- none of us knew why he did that...and he couldn't get it back together again and working! :lol: He wasted his money.
John....you did not live to see-
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what it is we are in what we make of you.

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Re: Frederic Chopin's cause of death

Postby Cybele » Mon Aug 09, 2010 5:00 am

*"quick reply here"*
I've read the cause of Chopin's death was, indeed, TB.
I, too, fantasize about hearing him perform. I've read that he had a very delicate touch on the keyboard -- I would so love to have heard it!!!

You say that active TB will kill a person within a year, yet I remember that my tubercular grandfather as *always* ill. My grandparents made several trips during consecutive winters to Florida for my grandfather's health. (Warmer climate, kinder to weak lungs than the northeast U.S., etc.)

A broken soundboard will not hold tune -- a piano with a cracked soundboard can be tuned, but it won't hold a concert pitch. Because of this (as I understand things) it can't be used to tune another string instrument (guitar, violin, etc.). Our century-old living room behemoth (AKA the piano) served all my kids well for music lessons. (It has a cracked soundboard which I and our piano tuner sort of remedied with toothpicks. :) ) We simply got an electronic tuner "thingy" for the one kid (viola) who seriously pursued music.
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Re: Frederic Chopin's cause of death

Postby Raphael » Mon Aug 09, 2010 3:35 pm

I, too, fantasize about hearing him perform. I've read that he had a very delicate touch on the keyboard -- I would so love to have heard it!!!


Cybele- some of his pianos still exist and one still plays beautifully:

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSL2141309320070321

A gorgeous piano- isn't it? I'd love to go and see it.


You say that active TB will kill a person within a year, yet I remember that my tubercular grandfather as *always* ill. My grandparents made several trips during consecutive winters to Florida for my grandfather's health. (Warmer climate, kinder to weak lungs than the northeast U.S., etc.)



I'm sorry to hear about your grandfather. regarding TB- from what I've read, once it's active the person will not live for more than a year. People who had TB who had always seemed ill probably were of poor health to begin with- e.g Tom Keats- he was described as sickly. It would make sense that people who had poor health and a low immune system would be more likely to contract the disease. And of course poor John had been unwell with sore throats/tonsilitis a year before he contracted TB.


A broken soundboard will not hold tune -- a piano with a cracked soundboard can be tuned, but it won't hold a concert pitch. Because of this (as I understand things) it can't be used to tune another string instrument (guitar, violin, etc.). Our century-old living room behemoth (AKA the piano) served all my kids well for music lessons. (It has a cracked soundboard which I and our piano tuner sort of remedied with toothpicks. :) ) We simply got an electronic tuner "thingy" for the one kid (viola) who seriously pursued music.


Have you still got the piano?
John....you did not live to see-
who we are because of what you left,
what it is we are in what we make of you.

Peter Sanson, 1995.
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Re: Frederic Chopin's cause of death

Postby Cybele » Tue Aug 10, 2010 12:51 am

Raphael wrote:
I, too, fantasize about hearing him perform. I've read that he had a very delicate touch on the keyboard -- I would so love to have heard it!!!


Cybele- some of his pianos still exist and one still plays beautifully:

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSL2141309320070321

A gorgeous piano- isn't it? I'd love to go and see it.


You say that active TB will kill a person within a year, yet I remember that my tubercular grandfather as *always* ill. My grandparents made several trips during consecutive winters to Florida for my grandfather's health. (Warmer climate, kinder to weak lungs than the northeast U.S., etc.)




I'm sorry to hear about your grandfather. regarding TB- from what I've read, once it's active the person will not live for more than a year. People who had TB who had always seemed ill probably were of poor health to begin with- e.g Tom Keats- he was described as sickly. It would make sense that people who had poor health and a low immune system would be more likely to contract the disease. And of course poor John had been unwell with sore throats/tonsilitis a year before he contracted TB.


A broken soundboard will not hold tune -- a piano with a cracked soundboard can be tuned, but it won't hold a concert pitch. Because of this (as I understand things) it can't be used to tune another string instrument (guitar, violin, etc.). Our century-old living room behemoth (AKA the piano) served all my kids well for music lessons. (It has a cracked soundboard which I and our piano tuner sort of remedied with toothpicks. :) ) We simply got an electronic tuner "thingy" for the one kid (viola) who seriously pursued music.


Have you still got the piano?


That piano's quite a treasure! Amazing!!

If my granddad were still alive he'd be something like 120 years old!! (I'm a bit older than most forum participants! :) ) My cousin, who was my regular babysitter, was hospitalized with TB for over a year. -- She'd probably caught the disease from our grandfather. She was very ill, but eventually made a full recovery, and is mother to 6 kids and grandmother to many more than that. (Antibiotics had become available just in the nick of time for her.)


Oh yes, we still have the piano. It was a Sears mail-order piano purchased in 1909. (Sears sold *everything* in the pages of their catalog, including kits for houses -- many of which are still standing. Rural areas were very dependent on Sears for farming supplies, kitchen goods, clothes -- you name it. 100 years ago, this area of the state was still very, very rural. )

(You can see a picture of one just like it here: http://www.antiquepianoshop.com/product ... ght-piano/. However, I can guarantee that ours is not worth nearly so much money. We bought ours for $150 in 1980.)

I'm sentimental about the instrument -- but I'd very much like it if the "musical" daughter would get herself settled and in a stable enough job situation so that she could take the giant thing out of our house. -- And maybe even have another generation of kids practice their scales on it.
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Re: Frederic Chopin's cause of death

Postby Raphael » Tue Aug 10, 2010 1:05 am

That piano's quite a treasure! Amazing!!


I bet it sounds lovely.


If my granddad were still alive he'd be something like 120 years old!! (I'm a bit older than most forum participants! :) ) My cousin, who was my regular babysitter, was hospitalized with TB for over a year. -- She'd probably caught the disease from our grandfather. She was very ill, but eventually made a full recovery, and is mother to 6 kids and grandmother to many more than that. (Antibiotics had become available just in the nick of time for her.)



I'm glad your cousin recovered. Did your poor grandfather pass of TB?


Oh yes, we still have the piano. It was a Sears mail-order piano purchased in 1909. (Sears sold *everything* in the pages of their catalog, including kits for houses -- many of which are still standing. Rural areas were very dependent on Sears for farming supplies, kitchen goods, clothes -- you name it. 100 years ago, this area of the state was still very, very rural. )


Is the piano a family heirloom? The photo of one similar to yours shows a lovely piano. :D


I'm sentimental about the instrument -- but I'd very much like it if the "musical" daughter would get herself settled and in a stable enough job situation so that she could take the giant thing out of our house. -- And maybe even have another generation of kids practice their scales on it.


Wouldn't you like to play it yourself? :wink:
John....you did not live to see-
who we are because of what you left,
what it is we are in what we make of you.

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Re: Frederic Chopin's cause of death

Postby Cybele » Tue Aug 10, 2010 3:04 am

Yes, my grandfather (as well as two other of my grandparents) died of TB. It was much more common a disease in the first half of the 20th century than it is now. -- We're very fortunate to be living in this era.

No, the piano is not an heirloom in any sense. We bought it from a music graduate student who had finished his course work and was leaving town -- we got it for a song. (Ha ha.) We bought a piano so that our kids could take music lessons.

I play our aging piano, but it is "play" in the sense of "to frolic" rather than "to perform." I took music lessons as a kid (altho' not piano) and can read music. I have a great time by myself so long as I'm assured no one is listening. I would like to take lessons once I retire -- I love the way the vibrations of the strings feel. I know that sounds odd -- but one of the reasons I love live music (as opposed to recordings) is that the sound has an almost palpable presence that surrounds and embraces you.

One of my favorite scenes -- speaking of Chopin -- in the movie "Impromptu" was when George Sand "hid" beneath Chopin's piano while he played. The scene was obviously meant to be lighthearted. But It also portrayed how moved Sand was by Chopin's music. -- I loved that scene! I could so identify with Madame George! :lol: (Yes, folks, I know the movie was only inspired by the relationship and wasn't truly biographical but I thought it a great flick!)
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Re: Frederic Chopin's cause of death

Postby Raphael » Tue Aug 10, 2010 3:21 am

Yes, my grandfather (as well as two other of my grandparents) died of TB. It was much more common a disease in the first half of the 20th century than it is now. -- We're very fortunate to be living in this era.


Poor things.

No, the piano is not an heirloom in any sense. We bought it from a music graduate student who had finished his course work and was leaving town -- we got it for a song. (Ha ha.) We bought a piano so that our kids could take music lessons.


But you still have an old piano... :D


I play our aging piano, but it is "play" in the sense of "to frolic" rather than "to perform." I took music lessons as a kid (altho' not piano) and can read music. I have a great time by myself so long as I'm assured no one is listening. I would like to take lessons once I retire -- I love the way the vibrations of the strings feel. I know that sounds odd -- but one of the reasons I love live music (as opposed to recordings) is that the sound has an almost palpable presence that surrounds and embraces you.



I know what you mean- the music fills the air in a different way than from CD. Oh to go to a live performance of Chopin's music!


One of my favorite scenes -- speaking of Chopin -- in the movie "Impromptu" was when George Sand "hid" beneath Chopin's piano while he played. The scene was obviously meant to be lighthearted. But It also portrayed how moved Sand was by Chopin's music. -- I loved that scene! I could so identify with Madame George! :lol: (Yes, folks, I know the movie was only inspired by the relationship and wasn't truly biographical but I thought it a great flick!)



Was that the Hugh Grant one? I get why they had that scene- I know a harpist and he lets me lean on his harp sometimes when he plays and the feeling of the strings is quite something- the sounds fill you.

As an aside- I'm not sure what I think of George Sand- she persued Frederic Chopin- at first he wasn't interested in her...and when she got tired of him she wrote a novel and used him as one of the characters. That's a bit mean.
John....you did not live to see-
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Re: Frederic Chopin's cause of death

Postby Raphael » Tue Aug 10, 2010 3:55 pm

Here's a link to the second movement of Debussy's "Nocturnes:" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQSPQqh9K5U
It gives a musical depiction of a nighttime festival with a procession that becomes merged within it.


I didn't forget the headphones at the library lol.I got told off by some woman for having my headphones on too loud listening to Sigur Ros ha ha.
The conductor is very eccentric lol. Wasn't keen on this piece.

Another nocturne, this time by Grieg: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Znn3DwL2dfY


Yes- liked that a lot!
John....you did not live to see-
who we are because of what you left,
what it is we are in what we make of you.

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Re: Frederic Chopin's cause of death

Postby Raphael » Thu Aug 12, 2010 10:17 pm

As an aside- I'm not sure what I think of George Sand- she persued Frederic Chopin- at first he wasn't interested in her...and when she got tired of him she wrote a novel and used him as one of the characters. That's a bit mean.


Oops...I better be careful what I say/think about George Sand. The other night things were getting tossed about my flat...I'm not joking. I was reading about her and Chopin and thinking;"Hmmm...not keen on her- he could have done better..", when some books flew on the floor sending my nice sunglasses flying and broke them. I picked them up, put them back then a bit later on (still reading about her and Chopin ) when there was a crash in my kitchen and I ran in to find a pan about to fly off the stove.
John....you did not live to see-
who we are because of what you left,
what it is we are in what we make of you.

Peter Sanson, 1995.
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Re: Frederic Chopin's cause of death

Postby Pjerrot » Fri Aug 13, 2010 2:22 am

Raphael wrote:
As an aside- I'm not sure what I think of George Sand- she persued Frederic Chopin- at first he wasn't interested in her...and when she got tired of him she wrote a novel and used him as one of the characters. That's a bit mean.


Oops...I better be careful what I say/think about George Sand. The other night things were getting tossed about my flat...I'm not joking. I was reading about her and Chopin and thinking;"Hmmm...not keen on her- he could have done better..", when some books flew on the floor sending my nice sunglasses flying and broke them. I picked them up, put them back then a bit later on (still reading about her and Chopin ) when there was a crash in my kitchen and I ran in to find a pan about to fly off the stove.


That does sound frightening! I haven't been sleeping well for a few days and have the unsettling feeling of someone -- or something -- watching me in secret. I was just fallen into a slumber the other night when a sudden sound and what seemed to be a flash jolted me awake but there wasn't a sound or any sign of anything ever happening. It was as if something clapped its hands right in front of my face and produced a thunder bolt.

I think George Sand was interested in him up until she became more of a nurse than mistress. I think their separation and Sand's inability to be stronger for Chopin did contribute something to his death. I mean this from the view that the stress couldn't have helped his health any.
Ah! I will taste that dew, for me ’tis meet,/And when the moon her pallid face discloses,/I’ll gather some by spells, and incantation.
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Re: Frederic Chopin's cause of death

Postby Raphael » Fri Aug 13, 2010 12:41 pm

That does sound frightening! I haven't been sleeping well for a few days and have the unsettling feeling of someone -- or something -- watching me in secret. I was just fallen into a slumber the other night when a sudden sound and what seemed to be a flash jolted me awake but there wasn't a sound or any sign of anything ever happening. It was as if something clapped its hands right in front of my face and produced a thunder bolt.


How intriguing...and a bit spooky- I wonder what that is...who have you been reading about? :lol:

I think George Sand was interested in him up until she became more of a nurse than mistress. I think their separation and Sand's inability to be stronger for Chopin did contribute something to his death. I mean this from the view that the stress couldn't have helped his health any.


George Sand in a modern context is no different to most young women today who have a few relationships in their lives, so I'm trying not to be judgemental, but back then she had a reputation for collecting men of genius/artistic talents and she kept on after Chopin til he gave in.She did look after him in Majorca but I don't think it was altruistic- she soon dumped him when he was too ill to make love to her and when he stuck up for Solange. She didn't even go and see him when he was dying nor go to his funeral- that's a bit off. And the novel is really mean. Delacroix reported that Chopin wasn't hurt by the novel but praised it- if he wasn't putting a brave face on it and he didn't resent this- then he was very forgiving. I have read some of the Liszt memoirs by the way ( they are online)- it seems Frederic was a nice man with good manners.

P.S Here is the trailer for the film:

http://www.chopindesireforlove.com/MainFrames.htm

It looks really good and the actors look quite like George Sand and Frederic Chopin. Is the background music one of Chopin's? If it is, do you know what it is Pjerrot?
John....you did not live to see-
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what it is we are in what we make of you.

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