Who are you? Introduce yourself

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Re: Who are you? Introduce yourself

Postby Raphael » Sat Jun 05, 2010 4:40 pm

Ennis wrote:Raphael,

Yes, surely you must be correct. I must be able to envision him "convening" with those other great spirits.


And reunited with Miss Brawne and Tom. :D
John....you did not live to see-
who we are because of what you left,
what it is we are in what we make of you.

Peter Sanson, 1995.
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Re: Who are you? Introduce yourself

Postby Ennis » Sat Jun 05, 2010 5:10 pm

Raphael -

Of course, Miss Brawne and Tom, but not with George and that rascal C. Armitage Brown, or at least I don't think so: THEY need to be "punished" for some part of eternity. But, his mom, yes . . . THAT relationship must be mended, and Thomas, Sr. must come "home," as well. And Leigh Hunt, who for all his so-called negative influence on Keats, was a true friend to the end.
"Tell him, tell that great poet and noble-hearted man that we shall hold his memory in the most precious part of our hearts, and that the world will bow their heads to it as our loves do. . . . Tell him he is only before us on the road, as he was in everything else."

(I'm not sure if my quoting is exact, but you get the point!)
"But if you will fully love me, though there may be some fire, 'twill not be more than we can bear when moistened and bedewed with Pleasures." JK to FB 08.07.1819
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Re: Who are you? Introduce yourself

Postby Raphael » Sat Jun 05, 2010 5:35 pm

Of course, Miss Brawne and Tom, but not with George and that rascal C. Armitage Brown, or at least I don't think so: THEY need to be "punished" for some part of eternity.


I know George can be seen as unfair when he came back to take the money, but John didn't tell him he was engaged to Miss Brawne so George didn't know how much John needed the money. And of course there was still money left for them all in Chancery which Mr Abbey didn't tell them about.
Money will be obselete in the afterlife- I don't think John would still be cross with George over that ( and we don't know if he was).
As for Mr Brown- he had a life time of guilt to live with after not going to italy with John, so he's had his punishment already. I think brown was in denial over how ill his friend was and couldn't face even thinking about it- in any case he wouldn't have been able to cope with the last few months of his friends suffering- Mr Severn was the right person to go with him- he proved that.


But, his mom, yes . . . THAT relationship must be mended, and Thomas, Sr. must come "home," as well. And Leigh Hunt, who for all his so-called negative influence on Keats, was a true friend to the end.
"Tell him, tell that great poet and noble-hearted man that we shall hold his memory in the most precious part of our hearts, and that the world will bow their heads to it as our loves do. . . . Tell him he is only before us on the road, as he was in everything else."



Yes, all those and William Haslam- it was he who organised the Italy fund.And don't forget Joseph Severn- a true devoted friend in those last dark days.
John....you did not live to see-
who we are because of what you left,
what it is we are in what we make of you.

Peter Sanson, 1995.
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Re: Who are you? Introduce yourself

Postby Ennis » Sat Jun 05, 2010 7:05 pm

Raphael --

Of course, you are correct on all accounts. I still get somewhat miffed when I think of George and Brown; however, a part of me believes Brown knew what was up, he just lost interest because the poet, that "pet lamb in a sentimental farce" was no longer cranking out the verses. The status of being closely associated with a poet of undeniable and unearthly talent wasn't quite the same when he was ill, weak, and coughing up copious amount of blood ("you mean I've got to clean all that up. . . ?!).
And yes, sweet Severn. If I could go back in time, he's the one I would most like to say "thank you" to, he and Fanny B. (I'd rather enjoy telling Abbey to "kiss my ass"). And speaking of Haslam, Keats's oldest friend (right?), I believe he would have gone in a heartbeat had he not had a family (strong Haslam. . . doesn't Keats refer to him in a letter as oak-like?? The exact wording escapes me -- have to go home now and look it up 'cause it'll bug me if I don't!). But, of course, Brown was to follow in the spring! Ha . . . couldn't go right then and there because he had to take Abigail to Ireland so he could marry her in a Roman Catholic ceremony that he knew would be illegal back in England. Need I say more! you must have a far more generous spirit than me, Raphael!! Ha!
"But if you will fully love me, though there may be some fire, 'twill not be more than we can bear when moistened and bedewed with Pleasures." JK to FB 08.07.1819
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Re: Who are you? Introduce yourself

Postby Cybele » Sat Jun 05, 2010 9:26 pm

Saturn wrote:We must institute a silly walk or funny handshake so we can recognise each other throughout the world... :wink:


Oh yes, Saturn! A funny handshake! -- please let it be a funny handshake -- :lol: :lol: --
*and with an awkward bow!*
"The philosopher proves that the philosopher exists. The poet merely enjoys existence."
Wallace Stevens
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Re: Who are you? Introduce yourself

Postby Raphael » Sat Jun 05, 2010 10:01 pm

however, a part of me believes Brown knew what was up, he just lost interest because the poet, that "pet lamb in a sentimental farce" was no longer cranking out the verses. The status of being closely associated with a poet of undeniable and unearthly talent wasn't quite the same when he was ill, weak, and coughing up copious amount of blood ("you mean I've got to clean all that up. . . ?!).


Maybe deep down Brown knew how ill John was and couldn't face having to care for him the way John cared for Tom..or maybe he was scared of seeing his friend weak and too ill to even get out of bed..it could be seen as cowardly but it could also be seen as too heartbreaking and scary for him to deal with so he told himself John would recuperate out in Italy and then he'd join him later and they'd sail back to London and all would be well. he was probably in denial whichever way you look at it.
One person who waan't was Miss Brawne, who Brown unfairly thought of as a vacuous flirt- I feel as hard and heart breaking it would have been for her and her mother they both would have taken care of him right to the end.
From reading Miss Brawne's letters to Miss Keats this is obvious.



And yes, sweet Severn. If I could go back in time, he's the one I would most like to say "thank you" to, he and Fanny B. (I'd rather enjoy telling Abbey to "kiss my ass"). And speaking of Haslam, Keats's oldest friend (right?), I believe he would have gone in a heartbeat had he not had a family (strong Haslam. . . doesn't Keats refer to him in a letter as oak-like??



Yes- and Miss Brawne described him as very kind.


The exact wording escapes me -- have to go home now and look it up 'cause it'll bug me if I don't!). But, of course, Brown was to follow in the spring! Ha . . . couldn't go right then and there because he had to take Abigail to Ireland so he could marry her in a Roman Catholic ceremony that he knew would be illegal back in England. Need I say more! you must have a far more generous spirit than me, Raphael!! Ha!



Perhaps I have. But the fact remains Brown had run out of money so he had to do his summer rental. If only John had been able to go next door with the Brawnes right away.I suppose it was due to "propriety" that he didn't. The novel Bright Star by Joan Rees goes into all this- you mighht like it Enis. You can get in on Amazon.
John....you did not live to see-
who we are because of what you left,
what it is we are in what we make of you.

Peter Sanson, 1995.
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Re: Who are you? Introduce yourself

Postby Cornelius » Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:19 pm

I thought this thread was to introduce our own person, and I think I should try to, whenever my english isn't the best (at the same time I hope it isn't the worst, but - whatever..) So, I have to say sorry.

The way, I get this link was a littlebit strange (I was bored enough to look after Keats-fonts in the web, without knowing why I should need this) and, guess! I am here, decided to regist and sneaking through the posts.

Who am I. First of all my ams, I'm strange (like a lot of people who try to read the world like a poem, and get that it's often more like a newspaper this time). Interested in medicine, literature and history, Also I'm addicted to tb.

Well - I'm not sure, if I haven't written to much, or something else. I'm glad to find this forum!
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Re: Who are you? Introduce yourself

Postby Raphael » Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:24 pm

Cornelius wrote:I thought this thread was to introduce our own person, and I think I should try to, whenever my english isn't the best (at the same time I hope it isn't the worst, but - whatever..) So, I have to say sorry.

The way, I get this link was a littlebit strange (I was bored enough to look after Keats-fonts in the web, without knowing why I should need this) and, guess! I am here, decided to regist and sneaking through the posts.

Who am I. First of all my ams, I'm strange (like a lot of people who try to read the world like a poem, and get that it's often more like a newspaper this time). Interested in medicine, literature and history, Also I'm addicted to tb.

Well - I'm not sure, if I haven't written to much, or something else. I'm glad to find this forum!


Welcome Cornelius! Your English is good! Do you read the poems in German translation or in English?
John....you did not live to see-
who we are because of what you left,
what it is we are in what we make of you.

Peter Sanson, 1995.
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Re: Who are you? Introduce yourself

Postby Cornelius » Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:33 pm

Thanks! I feel relieved to hear (read) this.

Ahm - yes, very good question. I prefer to read the poems in english, because in the translations the emotion get lost. Take "When I have fears that I may cease to be" for example. The german version is: "Wenn ich manchmal fürchte, früh zu sterben". The poem in german is likewise nice - but it has not the feeling in it, like the original by Keats.
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Re: Who are you? Introduce yourself

Postby Raphael » Mon Jun 07, 2010 12:05 am

Cornelius wrote:Thanks! I feel relieved to hear (read) this.

Ahm - yes, very good question. I prefer to read the poems in english, because in the translations the emotion get lost. Take "When I have fears that I may cease to be" for example. The german version is: "Wenn ich manchmal fürchte, früh zu sterben". The poem in german is likewise nice - but it has not the feeling in it, like the original by Keats.


And you would lose the rhymes reading it in German. It must be a fun way for you to study English! Have you seen the film?
Last edited by Raphael on Mon Jun 07, 2010 4:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
John....you did not live to see-
who we are because of what you left,
what it is we are in what we make of you.

Peter Sanson, 1995.
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Re: Who are you? Introduce yourself

Postby Cornelius » Mon Jun 07, 2010 12:20 am

It's better than school, university or something else, yes and more interesting than serious books. The reading isn't the problem - (thank good) - it's more the remembering to vocabulars and grammar. While reading the poems a lot of meanings you can get from the context.

Yeah, I've seen the film. Buyable in Germany it is since 02.06, I think - so I until yet I haven't the time to buy it, because Amazon ignores me. What do you think about the film?
I wondered about me, that I nearly want to cry (It's so obcure, that I can't take it). I'm not able to explaine the 'Why', but it was so damn [right word put in here] that such a genious have to die in his young age.
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Re: Who are you? Introduce yourself

Postby Raphael » Mon Jun 07, 2010 12:35 am

It's better than school, university or something else, yes and more interesting than serious books. The reading isn't the problem - (thank good) - it's more the remembering to vocabulars and grammar. While reading the poems a lot of meanings you can get from the context.



Yes, and sometimes he used a noun as a verb, a verb for a noun etc to create a specific meaning. It will helpy you understand some intricate meanings. :D
I am a qualified EFL teacher (not working as one now though) so if you have any English questions feel free to ask.


Yeah, I've seen the film. Buyable in Germany it is since 02.06, I think - so I until yet I haven't the time to buy it, because Amazon ignores me.



I hope you will be able to get a copy soon!


What do you think about the film?


It is beautiful and very authentic.


I wondered about me, that I nearly want to cry (It's so obcure, that I can't take it). I'm not able to explaine the 'Why', but it was so damn [right word put in here] that such a genious have to die in his young age.


Yes, I know- it was so unfair he didn't have a longer life.
John....you did not live to see-
who we are because of what you left,
what it is we are in what we make of you.

Peter Sanson, 1995.
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Re: Who are you? Introduce yourself

Postby Cornelius » Mon Jun 07, 2010 1:46 am

What does EFL exactly mean? Thank you, I will remember it, when I've problems to understand (or the feeling that THIS cannot be the thing he ment).

Unfair in one hand, in the other, I think the feever-hours of tuberculosis are able to set thoughts from and possibilities of an artist free, like .. mind-blowing? Or is consciousness-expanding the right word - I hope you know what I mean. In this way the illness may was suportive for his imagination.
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Re: Who are you? Introduce yourself

Postby Ennis » Mon Jun 07, 2010 1:43 pm

Raphael --

I have "Bright Star" by Joan Rees. I've had it for quite a few years now, but won't go into any detail as to how I acquired it. I collect Keats books and other "stuff." I still am not that fond of Brown.
"But if you will fully love me, though there may be some fire, 'twill not be more than we can bear when moistened and bedewed with Pleasures." JK to FB 08.07.1819
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Re: Who are you? Introduce yourself

Postby Malia » Mon Jun 07, 2010 3:38 pm

Hi Cornelius :)
EFL means, "English as a Foreign Language" (at least that's what I'm assuming . . . in America we call it ESL "English as a Second Language").
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