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Discussion of other topics not necessarily Keats or poetry-related, i.e. other authors, literature, film, music, the arts etc.

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Postby Malia » Wed Apr 26, 2006 12:36 am

Credo Buffa wrote:There just seem to be too many red flags on too many sides for their relationship to have carried on much longer. Had they married, I don't think they would have ended up very happy in the end, unfortunately :( Perhaps it's a good thing we'll never have to know that.


That's too true. Most biographers I've read state that if Keats hadn't lost his brother Tom (and/or hadn't contracted TB), he might not have fallen in love with Fanny B. in the first place.

I think the TB, itself, played a large role in why his love for her was so "fevered". He often describes his love as a type of sickness. TB probably heightened all of his already acute senses. I've heard that early TB (before blood-spitting occurs) often causes heightened sexual desire in its victims. And considering Keats probably had a heightened sense of desire naturally (being that he *was* a young man and physically sensitive to begin with), this desire must have been almost unbearable for him--especially with Fanny living just next door much of the time.

Andrew Motion said in the video "The Last Journey of John Keats" that Keats believed he was in an impossible situation where Fanny Brawne and Poetry were at odds with one another. He thought that, if he were to go to Italy, he'd die without Fanny Brawne near him. Yet, he also felt that Fanny (and the domestic life she would bring with her were they to marry) was a direct threat to his poetry. He didn't believe he would be able to continue with his art if he were to marry. And without poetry, he would die. So, no matter what he did--his situation was hopeless.
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Postby Credo Buffa » Wed Apr 26, 2006 12:50 am

Malia wrote:Andrew Motion said in the video "The Last Journey of John Keats" that Keats believed he was in an impossible situation where Fanny Brawne and Poetry were at odds with one another.

Definitely. I feel like this is an objection that some of Keats's friends had of her as well, though I might be wrong on that account.

However, I do seem to remember that Reynolds, being a poet himself, stopped writing after he married and had to get a "real job" to support his new family, and Keats was a bit miffed by this idea. Having a friend and fellow poet suffer that "fate of marriage" probably hung in his mind as a big, flashing sign that would come up whenever he felt himself getting to close to Fanny: REMEMBER WHAT IT DID TO REYNOLDS!!! ABORT! ABORT!

Objecting family/friends + personal struggle over career vs. girl definitely is not a formula for a happy marriage.
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Postby Saturn » Wed Apr 26, 2006 10:48 am

Okay back to the topic and we were speaking yesterday of Paradise Lost...

“…Others, more mild,
Retreated in a silent valley, sing
With notes angelical to many a harp
Their own heroic deeds, and hapless fall
By doom of battle, and complain that Fate
Free Virtue should enthrall to Force or Chance.
Their song was partial; but the harmony
(What could it less when Spirits immortal sing?)
Suspended Hell, and took with ravishment
The thronging audience. In discourse more sweet
(For eloquence the Soul, Song charms the Sense)
Others apart sat on a hill retired,
In thoughts more elevate, and reasoned high
Of Providence, Foreknowledege, Will, and Fate—
Fixed fate, free will, foreknowledge absolute—
And found no end, in wandering mazes lost.
Of good and evil much they argued then,
Of happiness and final misery,
Passion and apathy, and glory and shame—
Vain wisdom all, and false philosophy!—
Yet, with a pleasing sorcery, could charm
Pain for a while or anguish, and excite
Fallacious hope, or arm the obdured breast
With stubborn patience as with triple steel.”
Bk. II, 546-69.
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Postby Saturn » Thu Apr 27, 2006 11:14 pm

I think you might have heard of this guy...

“…yet she had,
Indeed, locks bright enough to to make me mad;
And they were simply gordian’d up and braided,
Leaving, in naked comeliness, unshaded,
Her pearl round ears, white neck, and orbed brow;
The which were blended in, I know not how,
With such a paradise of lips and eyes,
Blush-tinted cheeks, half smiles, and faintest sighs…”
Endymion, Bk. I 612-19.
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Postby dks » Fri Apr 28, 2006 5:32 am

I'm in a randy mood today...

There's a blush for won't, and a blush for shan't
and a blush for having done it:
There's a blush for thought, and a blush for naught,
And a blush for just begun it...

There's a sigh for yes, and a sigh for no,
and a sigh for I can't bear it!
O what can be done, shall we stay or run?
O, cut the sweet apple and share it!

O Blush not so! O Blush not so!

8)
"I am certain of nothing but the holiness of the heart's affections and the Truth of Imagination."
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Postby Credo Buffa » Fri Apr 28, 2006 5:37 am

Saturn wrote:I think you might have heard of this guy...

*scratches head* Who? :?

:P
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Postby Malia » Fri Apr 28, 2006 3:52 pm

It sounds *so* familiar. . .was it Leigh Hunt? :P :lol:
(And now for the sound of Keats turning in his grave. . .)
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Postby Malia » Wed May 03, 2006 7:33 pm

I found this nugget of wisdom written on my Starbucks coffee cup this morning:

"It's difficult for people to get rid of junk. They get attached to things and let them define who they are. If there's one thing I've learned in this business, it's that you are what you can't let go of."
--Brian Scudamore, founder and CEO of 1-800-GOT-JUNK?
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Postby dks » Wed May 03, 2006 7:59 pm

Malia wrote:I found this nugget of wisdom written on my Starbucks coffee cup this morning:

"It's difficult for people to get rid of junk. They get attached to things and let them define who they are. If there's one thing I've learned in this business, it's that you are what you can't let go of."
--Brian Scudamore, founder and CEO of 1-800-GOT-JUNK?


That's great and so true! I'm fairly certain that there are those days when I can be pretty damn closely assimilated with old ratty Christmas boxes and dated, faded Halloween costumes--why do we keep that junk?? :lol:
"I am certain of nothing but the holiness of the heart's affections and the Truth of Imagination."
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Postby Malia » Wed May 03, 2006 8:08 pm

Though I know I have enough tangible junk to last me a lifetime, I thought the quote spoke more to *intangible* junk--you know, prejudices, hatreds, fears, regrets. . .the "junk" we hold on to from our past that does nothing to help us move forward. Though, for some crazy reason, we *think* this junk is helping us somehow. Perhaps we use our junk to try and solicit pity from others (which does nothing to help us move forward in our lives--or grow as individuals) or as a fear to give us an excuse not to try new things and be the best person we could be. That kind of junk is more hurtful and wasteful and dangerous than any tangible junk ever could be, I think. And only we as individuals can clean out our own "emotional junk"--no one can do it for us :)
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Postby dks » Wed May 03, 2006 8:46 pm

Hmmm. "Intangible" or "emotional junk." Sounds pretty psychological to me...then again, one man's 'junk'--intangible or not-- is always another man's treasure--that is far and away very true.

In short, the melting pot of emotions we have feel/have help to make up our life experiences--we all "hold on" to "things"--it's what shapes our hearts...even the destructive aspects of it...everyone has to "let go" or exorcise the demons at their pace...

I'm no shrink, what the hell do I know?? :lol:
"I am certain of nothing but the holiness of the heart's affections and the Truth of Imagination."
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Postby Saturn » Wed May 03, 2006 10:34 pm

dks wrote:
I'm no shrink, what the hell do I know?? :lol:


Believe me, most shrinks are useless - they know nothing :lol:
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Postby Saturn » Wed May 03, 2006 10:46 pm

Something different for a change - song lyrics.

"When it feels like, when it feels like
Culture gets too much for me, I go , I go outside
Singing songs to alabys, singing songs to alabys,
Singing songs to alabys,
A song is a beautiful lie, a song is a beautiful lie
A song is a beautiful lie, a song is a beautiful lie"
Idlewild - Self Healer
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Postby Credo Buffa » Wed May 03, 2006 11:02 pm

Saturn wrote:Believe me, most shrinks are useless - they know nothing :lol:

Awww, but some do!

That's a great quote, Malia! So true! :lol:
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Postby dks » Thu May 04, 2006 12:38 am

I think shrinks are bit overrated. I have so many friends who over qualify them...

But, again...what do I know?
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