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Re: This is appropriate

Postby Saturn » Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:23 am

MonroeDoctrine wrote:

[/b]Compassion Towards Man

The best way to counter the insanity is to get people to participate in awesome classical culture. John Keats, Shelly, Moses Mendelssohn, and Friedrich Schiller. What better way to get people to be compassionate towards their fellow man than inspiring people to do so with art?
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How is that to be done?

Kids are taught great art and literature and history and all those things at school, but they naturally rebel against it.

I know I had no interest in the things I was supposed to be learning when I was at school.

Education really is wasted on the young.

And to be honest great Classical literature is full of all sorts of horrors. The first major piece of Western literature, The Iliad is an epic about a brutal war filled with death and destruction every bit as appalling and graphic as anything in the latest news reports from Iraq.

Greek tragedies? These are filed with nothing but murder and rape.

All subsequent western literature is filled with themes of horror and violence.

You cannot, and should not sanitize art, for it reflects life, and life can be brutal and violent sometimes.
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Postby adonais » Thu Apr 19, 2007 9:50 am

Uh....well you seem to capitalize on that "sometimes" -- how about a little positive thinking in between! By golly. Saying things like "education is wasted on the young" is just wrong on so many levels... :( (IMVHO - no offense meant)
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Postby Saturn » Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:00 am

I don't really mean that, just I don't think kids in general are interested in classic literature, they live in the here and now, not the past, they can't see how they can relate to anything written by some dead white man a few hundreds of yeas ago.

You can't force kids to listen to Mozart, or to read Shakespeare.
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Art Contains Ideas in It

Postby MonroeDoctrine » Fri Apr 20, 2007 9:06 pm

Now you brought up something important about the violence that is in the Classics. Now there is a point in which one must decide at what age it is appropriate to teach certain aspects of Classical Art.

Perhaps a Greek Tragety may not be the first thing to teach a ten year old but perhaps by the time the student is in high school the student (in a good educational system) will have developed the maturity to read such things.

What you have to understand is that violence is not a phenomenon that occurs outside of a context. The violence in the context of say a Classical Piece is different than say the violence in Friday the 13th Horrow films. For one thing in most classical drama it approaches something a bit more historically accurate, and second of all the "idea" communicated by the drama is different. In a Classical Drama the audience is given the ability to become better, and there is either a resolution or a moral to the story. Violence is not exhalted in a Classical Drama as a matter of fact; it is demonstrated to be absurd. Watch Mozart's the Abduction From The Seraglio, one of the most tyrannical figures in the opera becomes one of the most noble characters by the end of the drama. Classical Drama shows the "changes" that can occur for the better.

Now in a tragedy you might object and say, "well isn't it pretty much just bleak." In fact the tragedy is not praising or promoting the tragic things that are unfolding; it is demonstrating the destruction that can occur if one follows a tragic path. The person in the audience is able to recognize the flaw and actually say to themselves, "Man I sure don't want to be like these tragic figures in this aweful culture."

It is also worth noting that most Classical Drama is based on something serious and historically specific. Most modern films are not based on historical accuracy they are more concerned with entertainment. Sex and Violence are the end in most modern art; whereas becoming a better soul in society is the end in a Classical Piece. In other words Classical art has better relevence to one's life as well as the potential to enoble one's soul. Unfortunetely the purpose in violence films of today is to entertain.

Anyone can present so called reality, but only Classical Art can present a reality from the standpoint of changing that reality for the better.
Last edited by MonroeDoctrine on Mon Aug 27, 2007 2:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Scandals and more scandals!

Postby MonroeDoctrine » Fri Jul 06, 2007 10:31 am

I can't believe the BAE is being investigated by the Justice Department! For those who don't know the BAE is the British Defense company with strong ties to Prince Bandar of Saudi Arabia and Dick Cheney and the Bush Family. Blaire was personally involved in stopping the Serious Fraud Office investigation of BAE because such investigations would "go against British interest." Hopefully more and more revelations are going to come out against this corrupt institution. Especially since people like Bandar and Cheney are involved in exacerbating conflict in South West Asia
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Oh MY!

Postby MonroeDoctrine » Thu Jul 12, 2007 1:55 am

Alright a Senate appropriations committee just cut funding to Dick Cheney's office! You've got to love it! Just google Sen. Dick Durbin
Last edited by MonroeDoctrine on Thu Jul 19, 2007 6:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Oh MY!

Postby Saturn » Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:59 am

MonroeDoctrine wrote:Alright a Senate appropriations committee just cut funding to d**k Cheney's office! You've got to love it! Just google Sen. d**k Durbin


Dick Turpin? :lol:
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Oh My!

Postby MonroeDoctrine » Thu Jul 19, 2007 6:30 am

You know I never really finished discussing why Global Warming is a fraud. I think I'm going to have to post some things up about that immedietely
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Postby AsphodelElysium » Fri Sep 07, 2007 11:08 pm

I wasn't sure if I should put this here or on the Happy News thread, but here it is. I've just recently discovered this, so I don't know how long its been going on, but I think it is an exceptionally good thing and I wanted to spread the word. Check this out,

www.freehugscampaign.org

If humanity could only be at its best all the time! *sigh*
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Postby Saturn » Fri Sep 07, 2007 11:44 pm

Nice guy.

I wouldn't hug a complete stranger though.

That kind of close physical intimacy has to be earned or deserved in my opinion.

I have to know someone a certain amount of time before I would hug them.

It would be the same to me as kissing a complete stranger - I'd never do that.

Maybe I'm weird.

I have issues as you some of you Americans might say...

Stiff-upper lip and all that stuff...
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Postby AsphodelElysium » Sat Sep 08, 2007 12:14 am

Well, its not like he's asking people to have sex with him. :lol: And he's Australian, not American. I just thought it was nice what he was trying to do. Some people just need a hug, you know? Anyway, I thought it was a good example of an altruistic gesture. We need more love in the world.
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Postby Saturn » Sat Sep 08, 2007 12:32 am

I never said he was American :?

I'm not against the idea, of course not the sentiment is great, I just couldn't do it myself.

People up in here in the chilly North of Ireland aren't that touchy-feely you know.

Maybe that's why we've been trying to kill each for the last three hundred years :lol: :?

Thinks....
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Postby AsphodelElysium » Sat Sep 08, 2007 3:28 am

My mistake. Its really an individual thing. I mean I wouldn't have a problem with it, but I have friends that would, so...The idea is still cool though.
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Postby Malia » Sat Sep 08, 2007 4:55 pm

Saturn wrote:
People up in here in the chilly North of Ireland aren't that touchy-feely you know.


Hmm. . .one would think that the farther north one goes, the more one would want to cuddle up with someone else! :lol:

But I understand where you're coming from, Saturn. I have a friend who knows instinctually when someone needs a hug and can go up to just about anyone and freely give it. I'm not as insightful as she is--never sure if a hug is wanted or not. . .but I have a feeling more people would like hugs than wouldn't in our increasingly isolated societies. I mean, a teacher can't even touch a child *at all* in the public schools system anymore. There *is* such a thing as positive touch, people. :roll:
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Postby Credo Buffa » Sun Sep 09, 2007 1:24 am

I'm with you, Saturn. I have a hard time with touching people I don't know really well.
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