Appreciation

Discussion on the works of John Keats.

Moderators: Saturn, Malia

Re: Appreciation

Postby BrokenLyre » Sat Dec 26, 2009 3:39 am

[banned member] wrote: Now, please forgive the impertinence from a new boy but one slight word of censure. I fear there's a typo in the final stanza of 'Nightingale': "toil" should read "toll". (Apologies if this subject has been raised before.)

Many thanks once again, [banned member].



If you are referring to the 2nd line of the last stanza (the 72nd line of the poem) it reads:

"To toll me back from thee to my sole self!"

That's the official 1820 published version printed in Jack Stillinger's Complete Poems and in his The Texts of Keats's Poems. It was also published in the Annals of Fine Arts in 1819 and says the same. I don't know what book you are reading the Nightingale poem from, but apparently you have a typo in the book. The word is "toll" not "toil." The mistkae lies with your book publisher, not with Keats. Hope this helps.
"Come... dry your eyes, for you are life, rarer than a quark and unpredictable beyond the dreams of Heisenberg; the clay in which the forces that shape all things leave their fingerprints most clearly. Dry your eyes... and let's go home."
BrokenLyre
Endymion
 
Posts: 592
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 1:24 am
Location: New York State

Re: Appreciation

Postby Saturn » Sat Dec 26, 2009 5:27 pm

Thanks for pointing that out [banned member], nothing I can do about that I'm afraid, I have no idea how I would go about changing that :oops:
"Oh what a misery it is to have an intellect in splints".
Saturn
Forum Administrator
 
Posts: 3939
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2004 10:16 am

Re: Appreciation

Postby BrokenLyre » Sat Dec 26, 2009 10:38 pm

Sorry I misunderstood. Good observation on your part, however. (Maybe I should read the poems on this site sometime? :) )

Thilo may be the one who can change it (assuming he's still around).
"Come... dry your eyes, for you are life, rarer than a quark and unpredictable beyond the dreams of Heisenberg; the clay in which the forces that shape all things leave their fingerprints most clearly. Dry your eyes... and let's go home."
BrokenLyre
Endymion
 
Posts: 592
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 1:24 am
Location: New York State

Re: Appreciation

Postby Raphael » Tue Dec 29, 2009 3:16 pm

Welcome and I look forward to Keatsian discussions with you!I will be reading the poem in my two editions to see what word they have tonight..
John....you did not live to see-
who we are because of what you left,
what it is we are in what we make of you.

Peter Sanson, 1995.
User avatar
Raphael
Milton
 
Posts: 1845
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:10 pm
Location: wandering Keats' poetry

Re: Appreciation

Postby Raphael » Wed Dec 30, 2009 3:37 pm

[banned member] wrote:Hello Raphael and thanks for the welcome. I think I'm going to have to brush up on my Keats to keep pace with you lot! And I humbly plead with the Community for their forgiveness for my being overly pedantic regarding spelling - on my first day as well!! (I blush as I write.)

Adieu! [banned member]


Don't apologise for spelling - dear Junkets didn't always spell "correctly"! It's great to have you here- there's always lots to discuss and one doesn't have to know every single little thing that's in the books- I don't!
John....you did not live to see-
who we are because of what you left,
what it is we are in what we make of you.

Peter Sanson, 1995.
User avatar
Raphael
Milton
 
Posts: 1845
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:10 pm
Location: wandering Keats' poetry

Re: Appreciation

Postby BrokenLyre » Sat Jan 02, 2010 1:56 am

Hello [banned member] :)
"Junkets" is the nickname that Leigh Hunt gave to John Keats early in their relationship. He may not have originated the nickname, but usually he is credited with saying it often enough that is stuck. "Junkets" is a verbal play on Keats' Cockney accent when pronouncing his own name.

Glad to have you around!
"Come... dry your eyes, for you are life, rarer than a quark and unpredictable beyond the dreams of Heisenberg; the clay in which the forces that shape all things leave their fingerprints most clearly. Dry your eyes... and let's go home."
BrokenLyre
Endymion
 
Posts: 592
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 1:24 am
Location: New York State

Re: Appreciation

Postby Raphael » Sat Jan 02, 2010 3:38 pm

[banned member] wrote:Hello Raphael. I must confess my utter ignorance here...who is/was 'dearJunkets'? And as we're still two and half hours or so on the right side of midnight I will wish you a great New Year - enjoy it! But I notice I've some replies to send off from the other forum and so, after my usual restrained shindig, that is what I'll do.

A peaceful New Year, [banned member]


Broken Lyre is right- it doesn't work when said with a Northern accent though lol.. I asked a London guy in the library to say Junkets and it did sound like John Keats said fast! I think it's a very cute nickname and he seemed to have liked it as he signed his name with it in his letters sometimes.

Thanks for the New Year's greeting- same to you. I was in bed reading his letters with police sirens interrupting Chopin,- I pondered upon what he would have thought of New Year- would he have been as cynical as me in that thinking that some things don't change?
John....you did not live to see-
who we are because of what you left,
what it is we are in what we make of you.

Peter Sanson, 1995.
User avatar
Raphael
Milton
 
Posts: 1845
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:10 pm
Location: wandering Keats' poetry

Re: Appreciation

Postby BrokenLyre » Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:21 am

Great question [banned member]... No, I, like most Americans are not knowledgeable of English accents (or British for that matter). I did spend a few weeks in a little town west of Manchester, England in the year 2000. The couple I stayed with had 2 different accents - he was from London, she was from Northern England. Her accent was so lovely, I must say. I could listen to her speak all day. Delightful woman. They both pronounced the word "plant" differently.

So to answer your question - I have no idea of the accents - they all often seem difficult to many Americans. And yet, Americans tend to think that if you speak with an English accent, you are somehow smarter than us. It does sound rather intelligent...at least to those I grew up with...
"Come... dry your eyes, for you are life, rarer than a quark and unpredictable beyond the dreams of Heisenberg; the clay in which the forces that shape all things leave their fingerprints most clearly. Dry your eyes... and let's go home."
BrokenLyre
Endymion
 
Posts: 592
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 1:24 am
Location: New York State

Re: Appreciation

Postby Raphael » Mon Jan 04, 2010 2:24 pm

BrokenLyre wrote:So to answer your question - I have no idea of the accents - they all often seem difficult to many Americans. And yet, Americans tend to think that if you speak with an English accent, you are somehow smarter than us. It does sound rather intelligent...at least to those I grew up with...


Try coming to Liverpool- the accent here is def not intelligent!
John....you did not live to see-
who we are because of what you left,
what it is we are in what we make of you.

Peter Sanson, 1995.
User avatar
Raphael
Milton
 
Posts: 1845
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:10 pm
Location: wandering Keats' poetry

Re: Appreciation

Postby Malia » Mon Jan 04, 2010 3:11 pm

[banned member] wrote:P.S. It's just occurred to me - I wonder if BrokenLyre or any of the Community from across the millpond know anything of our accents...Geordie, Brummie, etc, and what they sound like? More importantly, could they understand them?


Hi again [banned member] :)
I know something of British accents. For one thing, I know there are quite a few! I lived in Durham England for 8 months during my undergrad days (went to school at Durham University) so I had some exposure to the accents of the North East. I remember when I first arrived, I had a difficult time understanding the "locals". I remember one gentleman talking to me and my friend and using the word "gadles". I had never heard of a "gadle" in my life and I puzzled over that one for hours, it seems, until I realized "Oh, he meant *girls*!" He was calling us "girls" which to me, sounded like "gadles"! :lol:

I sometimes listen to a Morning Show on the internet from Radio Stoke in Staffordshire, so I've become familiar with that region, too. (That accent is similar to the Manchester accent, I think.)

I think I remember hearing a few years ago that the Liverpudlian accent was rated the "rudest" accent in Britain? (I'm not sure that was the exact word, but it was something close to that.) I actually think it's a pretty cool accent--kind of sing song, in an "in your face" sort of way. Also, I love the Beatles and their accents were a part of the package ;)

I generally can tell if a person comes from the Northwest, Northeast or general "South" of England--but I'm no expert, by any means!

Now your initial question about accents has got me wondering--what do you Brits know about American accents? I'm not sure about BrokenLyre's accent (I expect you sound as if you're from the "East Coast" and have an Upstate New York accent, BrokenLyre? For example, you would pronounce the State just below Washington as OR-Re-Gone instead of the way we West Coast natives do, as OR-uh-gun?) We Pacific Northwesterners generally consider ourselves "accent-less"; that is to say, we have a boring, flat, slightly "cowboy" twang that doesn't stand out much at all (not like Southern accents or the various accents of the North East, anyway).
Stay Awake!
--Anthony deMello
User avatar
Malia
Forum Administrator
 
Posts: 1606
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 12:55 am
Location: Washington State, USA

Re: Appreciation

Postby BrokenLyre » Tue Jan 05, 2010 5:43 am

Hey malia :) - Yes I have an "upstate New York" accent which is similiar to the New York City accent but toned down quite a bit. Since I was born near Albany, New York, it's common for that area to speak like people from NYC but nowhere near as strong. And since my wife is from Buffalo I toned down the accent even more so it's not very noticeable now. Which is good because where I was from you would pronounce "wall" like "wawl" (rhyming with "shawl'). Also call, tall, ball all rhyme with shawl with emphasis on the "aw." But no more. I say "Oregon" like you do - "OR-uh-gun." I do not have an East Coast accent - that's very different.

[banned member] - thanks for the info on English accents. I have a book here about the English language and it states that there are still more English accents over a 100 mile area than anywhere in the US of considerable distance. One of the ironies for linguists is how America - with all its ethnic diversity and young country - has somehow remained fairly homogeneous with respect to spoken English. There are dialects, but not as many as you would think. Some believe that Television has caused this....who knows...
But this author maintains that England- a much older country - still has great variety of dialects even over small distances. Curious. Thanks for the insight on how spoken English serves as a litmus test for people today - just as in Keats' day.
"Come... dry your eyes, for you are life, rarer than a quark and unpredictable beyond the dreams of Heisenberg; the clay in which the forces that shape all things leave their fingerprints most clearly. Dry your eyes... and let's go home."
BrokenLyre
Endymion
 
Posts: 592
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 1:24 am
Location: New York State

Re: Appreciation

Postby Raphael » Tue Jan 05, 2010 5:24 pm

I don't know how the Liverpool accent evolved, but some slang is Irish in origin. I can tell some American accents- like New York and the deep south.
John....you did not live to see-
who we are because of what you left,
what it is we are in what we make of you.

Peter Sanson, 1995.
User avatar
Raphael
Milton
 
Posts: 1845
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:10 pm
Location: wandering Keats' poetry


Return to Poems, Odes and Plays

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

cron