Keats depressed?

[Guest]

Read on another page that Keats suffered from mental illness....is this true, and if so what "illness" was it? Thanks!

[rstargreen]

He was Clinically depressed

[Raphael]

No, he didn't have mental illness- he had many difficult times in his life- father dying when he was 8, mother dying when he was 14, his brother dying when he was 23, his guardian stopping him seeing his sister and keeping his money from him (so he had money worries), having recurring sore throats then getting TB himself and taking a year to eventually fade away from it. He was forced to leave his fiancee and go to Italy as his doctors thought he might recover there. So, at times he felt very down as is to be expected.

[rstargreen]

John Keats – 19th Century English Romantic Poet most famous for his poetry series of “Odes.” Keats experienced periods of severe depression.

http://www.depression-help-resource.com/articles/famous-depressed-people.htm

Plus I'm currently in AP Psychology. Depression is a mental Illness

[Saturn]

Clincal depression is a mental illness indeed, but Keats wasn't diagnosed with clinical depression. What Raphael means I think is that Keats had a lot of tragedy in his life and was prone to bouts of depression, not surprisingly, and particularly so in his last few months. No-one knows if Keats had clinical depression or not, such a thing wasn't recognised or able to diagnosed then. He certainly to my mind, and from personal experience, seems to have suffered some form of mental illness at particular times but no-one knows for sure.

Either way, it should not be seen as a weakness, mental illness is as serious [and sometime more] than any physical ailment and should be treated as such. I know personally what a stigma it is for me and people I've known with mental health problems.

Rant over.

[Raphael]

Clincal depression is a mental illness indeed, but Keats wasn't diagnosed with clinical depression. What Raphael means I think is that Keats had a lot of tragedy in his life and was prone to bouts of depression, not surprisingly, and particularly so in his last few months.

Yes, that is what I meant- that he felt moments of utter despair due to his sufferings and troubles- completely understandable- anyone else would feel the same if they were suffering what he did. I have horrific eczema on my hands at the moment, and feel despairing and very down- that is a reaction to my condition- there is a difference. What I mean is he was not unbalanced, bipolar etc etc. He was perfectly "sane." His letters show a balanced mind, even the later ones show that- though some of it desperate and despairing- that is due to his suffering. He didn't suffer from the afflications that poorJohn Clare did.

He certainly to my mind, and from personal experience, seems to have suffered some form of mental illness at particular times but no-one knows for sure.

What do you mean/refer to?

Either way, it should not be seen as a weakness, mental illness is as serious [and sometime more] than any physical ailment and should be treated as such. I know personally what a stigma it is for me and people I've known with mental health problems.
Rant over

You are right with the immediate above.

[Malia]

Yes, Saturn and Raphael, depression is not something to be ashamed of; it is an illness with definite physiological foundations. Mental illness, in general, is nothing to be ashamed of and it is not a person's "fault" if they have one. I've had too many family members (lots of depression in my family) and friends (I have a friend with schizophrenia) who have had to bear a great deal of suffering in the name of social stigma. I am all for bringing all mental illnesses "out of the closet" so that the misconceptions, fears, and prejudices surrounding them can be dispelled.

As regards Keats, evidence (from his own letters and the accounts of others) points in the direction that he suffered from bouts of depression most of his life. He often called them his "blue devils". They tended to be triggered by painful events in his life (the weeks and months just after his mother's death, the realization that Tom would die, when he learned that George was getting married and moving to America . . . those are a few times he appeared to suffer greatly from depressed moods and, I believe that the last two examples overlapped somewhat). Certainly there was no understanding back in Keats' day of mental illness as we know it. And, as he is dead and cannot be examined, no actual diagnosis can be made, but it is safe to say that he did suffer from depressed moods.

[Raphael]

Yes, Saturn and Raphael, depression is not something to be ashamed of; it is an illness with definite physiological foundations. Mental illness, in general, is nothing to be ashamed of and it is not a person's "fault" if they have one. I've had too many family members (lots of depression in my family) and friends (I have a friend with schizophrenia) who have had to bear a great deal of suffering in the name of social stigma. I am all for bringing all mental illnesses "out of the closet" so that the misconceptions, fears, and prejudices surrounding them can be dispelled.

Your comments above are very compassionate and understanding Malia.

As regards Keats, evidence (from his own letters and the accounts of others) points in the direction that he suffered from bouts of depression most of his life. He often called them his "blue devils". They tended to be triggered by painful events in his life (the weeks and months just after his mother's death, the realization that Tom would die, when he learned that George was getting married and moving to America . . . those are a few times he appeared to suffer greatly from depressed moods and, I believe that the last two examples overlapped somewhat). Certainly there was no understanding back in Keats' day of mental illness as we know it. And, as he is dead and cannot be examined, no actual diagnosis can be made, but it is safe to say that he did suffer from depressed moods.

Yes, he did get depressed and as you say they were triggered by painful events- I think most people would have felt down at experiencing the things he did. In fact, I think he was very courageous- he didn't turn to alchohol or opium despite all this- which some people did back then (understandably). I don't think he had mental illness per se- rather a normal reaction to suffering- feeling down. I think if he hadn't had all these painful events and sufferings in his life he wouldn't have felt depressed- they were a result of what he had to contend with.
I am feeling very down at the moment due to the horrendous eczema on my hands- it is hard to stay cheerful when faced with certain things.

[Malia]

Raphael,
I think that Keats's depressions were more than just "feeling down." His brothers, as well as others, testified to his dark moods--moods in which he at times contemplated suicide. His symptoms (as he, himself, described them) speak of the almost debilitating ennui that can occur with a depressive episode.

[Malia]

I'm sorry to hear about your eczema, Raphael. My dad has it on his elbows and it is certainly a painful condition. I remember an acquaintance I had back in my undergrad days had it very bad on his hands and I think he felt embarrassed about it--because of the way his hands looked with the condition. But he had such a gregarious nature--he did his best not to let his condition overpower him or become the only "mark" of who he was.
I hope you find some relief for your condition.

[Raphael]

Raphael,
I think that Keats's depressions were more than just "feeling down." His brothers, as well as others, testified to his dark moods--moods in which he at times contemplated suicide. His symptoms (as he, himself, described them) speak of the almost debilitating ennui that can occur with a depressive episode.

When I wrote *feeling down*- I did mean that, was putting it politely in respect for him. I still think they were a result of his sufferings though - a reaction to the sometimes unbearable situations and sufferings he faced. I don't think it was clinical depression ( cause unknown, possibly chemical imbalances in the brain as stated by doctors). It would have been astonishing if he had not felt the way he did after what he went through. When I read some of his letters or passages about his troubles in what others have written about him I just want to give him a huge hug. I hope Fanny Brawne gave him lots of hugs and love ( I'm supposing she did).

[Raphael]

I'm sorry to hear about your eczema, Raphael. My dad has it on his elbows and it is certainly a painful condition.

Thanks Malia- I'm sorry to hear about your father- I utterly empathise with him.

I remember an acquaintance I had back in my undergrad days had it very bad on his hands and I think he felt embarrassed about it--because of the way his hands looked with the condition.

I understand this- I feel the same way- it looks like my hands have been burnt or are infectious. I explain to shop keepers what it is when I hand money over so they know it is nothing catching.

But he had such a gregarious nature--he did his best not to let his condition overpower him or become the only "mark" of who he was.

I'm trying that too- but at the moment it's really hard- I cannot do much, had to give up my voluntary work.

I hope you find some relief for your condition.

When I get my unemployment money next week I'm getting more Bee ointment and Propolis drops.

[Malia]

When I wrote *feeling down*- I did mean that, was putting it politely in respect for him. I still think they were a result of his sufferings though - a reaction to the sometimes unbearable situations and sufferings he faced. I don't think it was clinical depression ( cause unknown, possibly chemical imbalances in the brain as stated by doctors)

Raphael, clinical bouts of depression can be "triggered" by life events. In fact, a traumatic experience in life can alter a person's brain chemistry and make them more susceptible to depressive episodes. Sadly, that is what happened to my Aunt, who just died from the effects of alcoholism (brought on by depression that began from a traumatic childhood event--the suicide of her father).

[Raphael]

Raphael, clinical bouts of depression can be "triggered" by life events. In fact, a traumatic experience in life can alter a person's brain chemistry and make them more susceptible to depressive episodes. Sadly, that is what happened to my Aunt, who just died from the effects of alcoholism (brought on by depression that began from a traumatic childhood event--the suicide of her father).

I'm sorry to hear about your poor Aunt Malia- how sad. I didn't know that trumatic events can alter the brain chemistry- I did nursing a few years ago (learning disability nursing) and I wasn't taught that. We were told there are two types of depression- clinical ( no reason for it, maybe imbalances of brain chemistry / signalling in the brain) and reactive- a response to difficult times/traumas etc.
I'm wondering if in fact depression triggered by trauma is in fact post traumatic stress disorder. People have been known to be depressed during difficult circumstances and then it vanishes when the problems go and they are fine theron.
But I claim not to be an expert- it's a complicated subject.
It seems John was a highly sensitive man and the things that happened to him were the cause of his depressions. How I wish things had been different for him. Though of course he did have some happy times also.