Keats and Buddhism?

Join in the discussion of the 2009 film Bright Star.

Moderators: Saturn, Malia

Re: Keats and Buddhism?

Postby BrokenLyre » Sun Jun 06, 2010 7:37 am

Yes, Cybele, that is exactly what I was driving at. Well said.

Raphael is correct too that there are still huge fears today with AIDS etc.. and there is still so much suffering around the world. She is right in that we all experience some suffering. I was just pointing out that death was much closer and more often in earlier times (death of siblings was common especially in younger ages!). I have attended only 3 funerals for young kids in the past 30 years. I'll bet there were many more funerals for kids back in Keats' day. So yes, people lived with great uncertainty and pain just trying to make it past childhood diseases. This reality had to affect the writers of the day, that's all I meant.

I'd still rather live today - clean water, clean food, antibiotics, excellent medical facilities, great hygiene (assuming one has money and access I suppose :D ). I have had seven surgeries in my life and I would absolutely HATE life if I had to live without the surgeries. I should have died from one of them and I missed cancer twice with good medical care.....so I can imagine the WRETCHEDNESS (copying Keats here) I would have had to live with if I lived in the 1820's. Forget it. I would have been on laudanum.
"Come... dry your eyes, for you are life, rarer than a quark and unpredictable beyond the dreams of Heisenberg; the clay in which the forces that shape all things leave their fingerprints most clearly. Dry your eyes... and let's go home."
BrokenLyre
Endymion
 
Posts: 592
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 1:24 am
Location: New York State

Re: Keats and Buddhism?

Postby Malia » Sun Jun 06, 2010 1:58 pm

I hear you there, BrokenLyre. I've thought before that if my *parents* hadn't been born when they were (i.e. if we had been a 19th rather than a 20th/21st C. family, I would never have been born, as my mother would have surely died from appendicitis at age 6 or the scarlet fever she had not long after. And even if I had been born and grew up as I did, I would probably have not led the most comfortable life as I had a seizure disorder for most of my childhood and young adult life that produced symptoms that might have sent me to some basement room or a mental hospital back in the day (my seizures were in the temporal lobe and produced strange sounds and frightening sensations rather than convulsions). . . but were easily taken care of with anti-seizure medication in modern times.
Stay Awake!
--Anthony deMello
User avatar
Malia
Forum Administrator
 
Posts: 1606
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 12:55 am
Location: Washington State, USA

Re: Keats and Buddhism?

Postby Raphael » Sun Jun 06, 2010 3:18 pm

Interesting family stories Broken Lyre and Cybele.
I think although back then losing people to those diseases and children dying was of course heartbreaking I think back then people had more courage than today. People get traumatised by silly things today! Have you seen the covers of celeb mags and listened to the contents of some pop songs?! People are mollycoddled today- youngsters have hissy fits because they cannot afford to get the latest trainers there and then or that their friend won them on a nintendo game.
John....you did not live to see-
who we are because of what you left,
what it is we are in what we make of you.

Peter Sanson, 1995.
User avatar
Raphael
Milton
 
Posts: 1845
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:10 pm
Location: wandering Keats' poetry

Re: Keats and Buddhism?

Postby Cybele » Tue Jun 08, 2010 1:45 am

Raphael wrote:Interesting family stories Broken Lyre and Cybele.
I think although back then losing people to those diseases and children dying was of course heartbreaking I think back then people had more courage than today. People get traumatised by silly things today! Have you seen the covers of celeb mags and listened to the contents of some pop songs?! People are mollycoddled today- youngsters have hissy fits because they cannot afford to get the latest trainers there and then or that their friend won them on a nintendo game.


Spoiled children have always existed. True, there may be more of them now because spoiling a child has recently become so much more convenient. :)

I do agree with you, tho', that most people (particularly those in developed countries) haven't been "toughened" by adversity to the extent folks were in past centuries.
"The philosopher proves that the philosopher exists. The poet merely enjoys existence."
Wallace Stevens
User avatar
Cybele
Calidore
 
Posts: 377
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 1:19 am
Location: Ohio, USA

Re: Keats and Buddhism?

Postby BrokenLyre » Tue Jun 08, 2010 7:18 am

There is real truth to what you say Raphael & Cybele. Your comment reminds me of when I went to India in 2002. While I was standing outside a hotel, waiting for my ride, a 20-something Indian man stood nearby. I commented about how hot and humid it was, while I ate my hermetically sealed pop tarts (from America) and he said to me in a wonderful Indian accent, "You Americans are too delicate." It was quite funny to hear that.
"Come... dry your eyes, for you are life, rarer than a quark and unpredictable beyond the dreams of Heisenberg; the clay in which the forces that shape all things leave their fingerprints most clearly. Dry your eyes... and let's go home."
BrokenLyre
Endymion
 
Posts: 592
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 1:24 am
Location: New York State

Re: Keats and Buddhism?

Postby Ennis » Tue Jun 08, 2010 2:48 pm

All of this about how soft we are and losing children at an early age, etc. is true. Living in Keats's time would be much more difficult for us if we were somehow "blasted back" to the past then if we were born during his time (I know I'm stating the obvious; I'm not really this shallow-brained). I think I'd still prefer to live then than now -- except for my son, who would suffer tremendously before he died an early death. He has hemophilia -- severe defeciency. So I know where some of you are coming from.
"But if you will fully love me, though there may be some fire, 'twill not be more than we can bear when moistened and bedewed with Pleasures." JK to FB 08.07.1819
User avatar
Ennis
Calidore
 
Posts: 387
Joined: Sun May 16, 2010 2:24 am
Location: Not where (or when) I want to be.

Re: Keats and Buddhism?

Postby Raphael » Tue Jun 08, 2010 5:30 pm

BrokenLyre wrote:There is real truth to what you say Raphael & Cybele. Your comment reminds me of when I went to India in 2002. While I was standing outside a hotel, waiting for my ride, a 20-something Indian man stood nearby. I commented about how hot and humid it was, while I ate my hermetically sealed pop tarts (from America) and he said to me in a wonderful Indian accent, "You Americans are too delicate." It was quite funny to hear that.


He has to live with this type of heat all the time and will be used to it. :D
John....you did not live to see-
who we are because of what you left,
what it is we are in what we make of you.

Peter Sanson, 1995.
User avatar
Raphael
Milton
 
Posts: 1845
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:10 pm
Location: wandering Keats' poetry

Re: Keats and Buddhism?

Postby Raphael » Tue Jun 08, 2010 5:35 pm

Ennis wrote:All of this about how soft we are and losing children at an early age, etc. is true. Living in Keats's time would be much more difficult for us if we were somehow "blasted back" to the past then if we were born during his time (I know I'm stating the obvious; I'm not really this shallow-brained). I think I'd still prefer to live then than now -- except for my son, who would suffer tremendously before he died an early death. He has hemophilia -- severe defeciency. So I know where some of you are coming from.


This reminds me of a chat I had with my Dad about a year ago. He was born in 1939 and so grew up on rations. He was a young man in the 1960s.He still loves the music of that time. I asked him if he thought it was a better time to live back then - did he prefer now or then? His reply surprised me- his answer was neither! So, what time did he wish to live in if he had the choice I asked- his answer surprised me- the 1800s!!! He said the 1800s if he was middle class and healthy though.
I will ask him this question again as since he had to have an operation on his leg and had to have numerous antibiotics and pain killers- he wouldn't be with us now if this had happened in the 1800s.
John....you did not live to see-
who we are because of what you left,
what it is we are in what we make of you.

Peter Sanson, 1995.
User avatar
Raphael
Milton
 
Posts: 1845
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:10 pm
Location: wandering Keats' poetry

Re: Keats and Buddhism?

Postby Ennis » Tue Jun 08, 2010 8:35 pm

Raphael --

You know, that was one thing that drove Keats from medicine -- wanting "to do some good in the world," but not desiring to bring the pain that went along with the "healing". I can understand how a man of Keats's extraordinarily sympathetic nature would be hard pressed to operate on someone without the benefit of any anesthesia (sp?), except for a big swig from a "likker" bottle.
"But if you will fully love me, though there may be some fire, 'twill not be more than we can bear when moistened and bedewed with Pleasures." JK to FB 08.07.1819
User avatar
Ennis
Calidore
 
Posts: 387
Joined: Sun May 16, 2010 2:24 am
Location: Not where (or when) I want to be.

Re: Keats and Buddhism?

Postby Raphael » Tue Jun 08, 2010 8:53 pm

Ennis wrote:Raphael --

You know, that was one thing that drove Keats from medicine -- wanting "to do some good in the world," but not desiring to bring the pain that went along with the "healing". I can understand how a man of Keats's extraordinarily sympathetic nature would be hard pressed to operate on someone without the benefit of any anesthesia (sp?), except for a big swig from a "likker" bottle.



Yes, he must have seen some horrific sights! I think they must have used opium to make people unconcious sometimes though.
Hooray for anaesthetics eh? I am very glad of them when I go to the dentist!
John....you did not live to see-
who we are because of what you left,
what it is we are in what we make of you.

Peter Sanson, 1995.
User avatar
Raphael
Milton
 
Posts: 1845
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:10 pm
Location: wandering Keats' poetry

Re: Keats and Buddhism?

Postby Keats9264 » Mon Jul 26, 2010 7:05 am

I have an OLD Christmas book from the end of the 19th century. I got it to feel all warm and Christmasy. Man oh man is it depressing. Little poems about the angels taking the sick children etc. I was like: this is the most depressing CHRISTMAS book I've ever seen! So yeah, the illness an death was so much a part of their lives they couldn't even have a Christmas book without it!
Keats9264
 
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 7:30 am
Location: Upstate New York

Re: Keats and Buddhism?

Postby Raphael » Mon Jul 26, 2010 4:41 pm

Is it an American or British book?
John....you did not live to see-
who we are because of what you left,
what it is we are in what we make of you.

Peter Sanson, 1995.
User avatar
Raphael
Milton
 
Posts: 1845
Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:10 pm
Location: wandering Keats' poetry

Re: Keats and Buddhism?

Postby Cybele » Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:48 pm

Keats9264 wrote:I have an OLD Christmas book from the end of the 19th century. I got it to feel all warm and Christmasy. Man oh man is it depressing. Little poems about the angels taking the sick children etc. I was like: this is the most depressing CHRISTMAS book I've ever seen! So yeah, the illness an death was so much a part of their lives they couldn't even have a Christmas book without it!


Hey, even the simple bedtime prayer many of us learned as small children, "Now I lay me down to sleep. . . If I should die before I wake, I pray the Lord my soul to take."

:lol: I hated that prayer as a little kid -- I thought I was asking God to kill me in my sleep. :lol:

Seriously though -- I'm sure that prayer was a left-over from an earlier era.
Last edited by Cybele on Tue Jul 27, 2010 11:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"The philosopher proves that the philosopher exists. The poet merely enjoys existence."
Wallace Stevens
User avatar
Cybele
Calidore
 
Posts: 377
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 1:19 am
Location: Ohio, USA

Re: Keats and Buddhism?

Postby Keats9264 » Tue Jul 27, 2010 4:21 am

Raphael - it's an American book.

Cybele - yeah, my mom thought it sounded scary too, so she changed it to: "Now I lay me down to sleep, I pray the Lord my soul to keep, keep me through the starry night, and wake me when the sun shines bright." I never heard the traditional one until I was older. Mom always said, "I changed it because I thought that was an awful thing to teach to children!" LOL
Keats9264
 
Posts: 24
Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2010 7:30 am
Location: Upstate New York

Re: Keats and Buddhism?

Postby BrokenLyre » Fri Jul 30, 2010 4:10 am

I like your mom's version a lot better - thanks. "if I should die before I wake" is a bit heavy for a 4 year old (when I learned it many years ago). My mom should have changed it.
"Come... dry your eyes, for you are life, rarer than a quark and unpredictable beyond the dreams of Heisenberg; the clay in which the forces that shape all things leave their fingerprints most clearly. Dry your eyes... and let's go home."
BrokenLyre
Endymion
 
Posts: 592
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 1:24 am
Location: New York State

PreviousNext

Return to BRIGHT STAR

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

cron